Is working full time harming my kids?

[Jraven]

Ok as if I don't feel guilty enough for working, there's a study out today published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation which says that working full time while your kids are pre-school increases their chances of psychological stress, unemployment and doing less well at A level. What should we do - all pack it in? Where are these mythical part-time, flexi-hour jobs that we have be promised so long? Is the government's policy of getting mothers back to work all wrong?

Loopyan, I don't think you should be worried about your baby, my niece never crawled and started walking at 12 months, and my sister works f-t, a friend's baby is now 2 and a half and can probably say a couple dozens words most of them only recognisable by his mum who is at home full time.

so what? A doctor told my friend: have you ever seen any adult incapable of speaking? (excluding any physical disabilities of course). Your child will speak when he's ready and may never crawl, but will certainly learn to walk. (and then you'll wish he'd started later!!!!)

As for the W/M SAHM debate, funny how I always thought this was a just a matter of personal circumstances (choice/need), never thought it could be a choice of parenting style.

I agree completely with Scummymum, with her effort to lighten the debate and especially the last comment.

Blimey, what a lot of mud slinging! And why do people like ASF appear from nowhere to start a riot, then vanish without a trace, hmmm?
I've got a foot in both camps I suppose - I'm a SAHM one week, then a WM the next. Maybe I am selfish, but we just can't live on one salary.
There is a difference between have one's own opinion about childcare, and being judgmental.
And I really can't stand the competitiveness that some mothers have - my cousin is coming down from Scotland next week with her ds (7 months older than my ds) to visit her family and suggests that we must meet up so as to 'compare' the boys. Give me strength.

Scummymummy, great comments and great poem. Took the poem to work today, they liked it especially a friend of mine who's expecting her first baby in April.

Is this the biggest discussion so far on Mumsnet? Can't say I've seen one that's taken so long to read!

I noticed ASF hasn't come back to respond to any further comments. A one-time posting perhaps?

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No I haven't vanished without a trace Iam still here!
I have had my say ,I just don't want to go on about it.
Ailsa , If you were a long time member like me you would know that this is not the longest thread here by a long chalk.

Well ASF, perhaps you would like to post by your real name then - if you are such a long time member I can't see any other postings other than on this thread - how funny.

Oh give it a rest Pamina, at least callie was trying to make the peace slightly. And actually it was your assumption that your SAHM friends were envious of your nursery-reared child that started all this in the first place!

I give up!
Pamina you seem determined to have the last word and carry this on.
So for the record I think your right! You are THE perfect mother. Your child is by far superior and better behaved than your friends babies.
[Enid,How could you say that was an ASSUMPTION It is clearly a fact 5 other people have noticed this] Tut Tut!
Are you happy now pamina . Will you finally let this go?

Enid I hope You realise Iam not really telling you off for assuming. Iam hoping Pamina will realise how petty this all is.
BTW Enid thanks for pointing out that it WAS Pamina and her smug filled post that actually started all this.
It was ridiclous of her to suggest that her child is better behaved because she goes to childcare and that her friends were jealous of her.
Just as it was ridiculous of me to suggest in the next post that her baby might be placid because of childcare.
The difference is I was being ironic.
I dont actually think that is true.
Wheras I think Pamina Really does Believe that her child is better because she attends nursery and I musn't forget her exellent home life too.

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Callie, I come in peace - I signed myself evil witch because that is how Scummymummy referred to me in her funny poem.
I don't see myself as an evil mum for working outside the home, I know that I am doing the best I can for my son, just like everyone on the site is. I do think you're right to think back to choice, it's a wonderful thing and I don't begrudge it to anyone. But some of us genuinely don't have it, and would downsize their f/t hours like a shot if the cost of a mortgage in London was not so obscene.

Marina Thank you for responding in a positive way .You have read my post where I explained I have nothing against working mothers AT ALL and you understood what I was saying about choices.
Robinw I have no idea were you are coming from??
Please show me were I have been rude and insulting??
You seem determined to keep fighting paminas corner.
Well really there is no need.
BTW I hope you weren@t refering to my sarcastic post. Because I think there has been quite a few of them and you havent pointed them out.

robinw. WHY do you keep posting telling everyone to shut up and forget it. Even going as far as to quote christian values to us all.
I thought this was a discussion board and I didnt realise you were a moderator?
If you don't like this thread then don't read it!
But for gods sake let the rest of us read it if we want.
I second Lisav about enjoying a good debate.Iam on maternity leave and going stir crazy.I dont see anything too bad here at all.
And leave calie alone for petes sake. She has only given her opinion and totally explained she has nothing against wms or daycare. So whats your problem with her?
Other wms here have found this already so why Robinw and Pamina do you continue to snipe at her every time she posts.
Well thats my rant over! Iam tired and ready for bed. I've got two babies kicking my ribs and Iam feeling v fat and crabby at the moment.
Goodnight, sara.

robinw - the Christian values bit might have been worthwhile and interesting if you hadn't then got stuck into Callie and I.

But thanks for pointing out that people might think I'm a bitch! That's just what I need right now. (errr....not)

Fight!

Pamina, please can we publicly make up and knock this thread on the head!! Its utterly stress-making and I want mumsnet to go on being a nice place that gives me a bit of respite from a tedious day.

I'm sorry!!!!

I second that Enid. I think I prefer the fluffy threads.
Pamina,Iam sorry too.
Perhaps we should start a new debate on abortion or religion?
Only joking!

The obscenity of London mortgages within manageable area/surviable commute is not one that has sprung up from thin air. If we go back say, 30 years, most properties would have been secured on a single income. More educated and empowered women started to emerge into the job market, gaining their independent wage, and at some point throwing in their lot with a partner. 2 wages secured something better than one and then the laws of supply and demand settled house prices higher up the scale.

Once children come on the scene, a certain trap has occured: move out (which in itself incurs a cost) to something for one wage to maintain; or soldier on and absorb childcare costs into the equation. And remember, whoever you are paying to look after your children is further down the recognised reward scale than yourself.

By embracing the career fulfilment and reward route, women have scored a bit of a home goal.

MalmoMum - I agree, if the government paid for us to stay at home and look after our children they would be doing us all a favour! After all, why should we pay someone else to look after our children when we can do the job 10 times better? Unless you really want to work of course, which is a different ball game altogether. It does seem to me though that the government are all too keen to get mothers to go out to work, whereas in the 80's the trend was very opposite, with sociologists condemning the practices of the so-called 'latch-key kids'. And by saying this I am in no way to be mis-interpreted as being against working mums.

Lindy - I understand what you are saying about telly and kids. When I posted my comment about the tellytubbies I didn't mean to say that any mother who lets her children watch it are bad, it's just not for me. I think that if I choose to stay at home with dd (and I know I am lucky to have the choice) then I should look after her to the best of my skills, and I don't think the tellytubbies is good for my sanity. Also, a lot of postings have implied that we let our kids loose whilst we spend time posting on Mumsnet - have you lot never heard of afternoon naps?

Anyway, everyone has apologised to everyone else which is great and what makes Mumsnet great. This is a lighthearted debate as I see it and no-one should be offended by a faceless posting. But I do see that some posts have been overly sarcastic, which is not nice either. I hope I have not offended anyone and if I have I apologise. None of us are perfect and perhaps it is this guilt that we should all be perfect mothers that gets us so defensive? See how society corrupts us so!

malmomum

are you saying that only in london do mothers work? if not, why have we not seen this effect throughout the country?

the factors affecting the london housing market are numerous. to name but a few:

*impact of city bonuses and the related property purchasing power
*likewise influx of expats (on relocation packages from their firm) attracted to, among other things, london's status as a world
financial centre, media capital and centre of government
*migration to london
*reduction in the social housing stock due to "right to buy" legislation
*speculation in the property market in london as a result of the above.

there is a net gain of 30,000 households per annum to london - property values are driven by the simple fact that demand outstrips supply.

Pamina I have stayed pretty much out of this too, as on this sort of thing I can put my foot in it without really meaning too.