Is working full time harming my kids?

[Jraven]

Ok as if I don't feel guilty enough for working, there's a study out today published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation which says that working full time while your kids are pre-school increases their chances of psychological stress, unemployment and doing less well at A level. What should we do - all pack it in? Where are these mythical part-time, flexi-hour jobs that we have be promised so long? Is the government's policy of getting mothers back to work all wrong?

Kia I agree. Some of the sarcasm here really stinks!

Bugsy Iam amazed and astounded at your ignorance.
Do you really think that noone other than ASF thinks a nursery is not the best place for a baby from early until 6pm.
Really if you think that view is extreme you need a reality check.
BUt Hey wait a minute I forget you have never heard of any one else thinking that have you?
Neither have you read about it in the papers.
I suppose you must be right then Bugsy. ASF MUST be the only person in the whole world to think a day nursery is not the best place for a baby to spend a whole day every day Otherwise likkle ole you would have heard about them.

Sorry for the sarcasm but couldnt resist as some of the sarcasm from the working allday mums is really horrendus.

No, no, no RobinW, I win!

I have let, no, encouraged, my sons to watch TV at times AND deserted eldest child to nursery part time AND before that, had a nanny two days a week AND have a mother's help at the moment so that I can take a break from the youngest youngun to do some housework AND regularly have a babysitter do the bonding experience known as bath and bed AND (now this is the worst bit) I don't have a paid job or a volunteer job or any sort of a work outside of the home job at all! Ok, well, that wasn't the worst bit. Here's the worst bit: I think I'm a better mother now than I was when I only had one child and was staying at home doing everything myself. It's interesting, though, that we're all ("we" being my husband, myself and two boys) much happier this way. That's what this sort of bad parenting will get you, I guess.

So I'd like to nominate myself as Worst Mother of the Year.

Or decade, since I don't plan to work even when the boys are at school. (Just wanted to get that in since I figured the working-at-some-work-that's-not-at-home-work mom's might not be mad enough at all the previous stuff.)

And, once again, forgot to hit preview. Actually, I remembered, but hit the wrong button.

Obviously, there is no excuse for bad punctuation. I apologize for the misuse of the apostrophe in the last sentence.

Also, is it "courses for horses" or "horses for courses" and that means the same thing as "whatever floats your boat", right?

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Another 'unnatural' mother here,

Here goes;

dd started nursery at 10 weeks (yes weeks!!) mornings only, looked after by MIL afternoons, as I went back to work full time (the shame of it!).

dd started school, 2mths after her 4th birthday, went to after school club 1 day per week.

there's worse to come;

ds started nursery at 13 weeks (yes weeks again!),
again mornings only, MIL again in afternoons, but this time she had dd and ds.

ds changed nursery at 15months, dd changed after school club at same time. Changed nursery again just before 2nd birthday. Watched on the webcam at last nursery!?!?!?!?!

ds started school at same age as dd (birthdays only 1 week apart). dd and ds now go to another after school club two days per week.

MIL picks both up from school 3 days per week.

What an awful mother I must be, not spending any time with them during the days!?!?!?!

Another thing, I have a picture of them on my desk AND a picture of them as the wallpaper on my computer at work!

As for getting a life, excuse me but I happen to think I have a pretty good life, I get to see my friends everyday (at work - we're more than just colleagues, we work together and socialise together), on our last night out there were 13 of us! Most of us have each others home/mobile phone numbers, BTW out of those of us who go out I am the only one that has children, and has to make babysitting arrangements, even if dh is working his late shift, I wait until he comes home at about 10pm, the kids get to have a late night, and he drops me off at the pub. The babysitting issue isn't really an issue as I organise the nights out on nights when I know that dh will be home (most of the time).

And, finally, I think - some of you might be asking "When does she spend time with the kids?", the answer is evenings and weekends, I help them both with their reading and any homework on week nights, and at weekends, we go shopping, go to the park, occasionally go visit my sister 'up north' etc.

From some of the comments on this discussion I'm doing EVERYTHING wrong. If that's the case, how come dd and ds have turned out to be well rounded children (not just IMO), are happy and sociable.

I love them, they love me, we're all generally happy (yes they do wind me up sometimes - but that comes with the territory). I don't generally take too much notice of what other people say, if they've got a problem with the way I do things, then that's it, THEIR PROBLEM.

A message to those mothers at Pamina's meeting, if they can't bear to leave their little darlings with someone else, how on earth are they going to cope when they start school?

Home schooling?

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Crumbs! Er, I'm speechless. This thread is about double the length it was when I last looked at it. And the vitriol and bile level has risen quite a bit. Uh oh.

Thanks for the compliments on the poem, everyone.

Is that the same robinw that told me supportively not to be so ratty?

I have PCOS. I am fortunate to be one of the ones who has been able to conceive without medical help. However I subscribe to a list on which many women have to face the possibility that they may never have the choice of being any sort of mother. Count your blessings and be a little more tolerant.

Why is everyone getting so ratty about all of this? What is wrong with having such discussions as these? I cannot see that anyone has been deliberately nasty, and if we all had the same views then life would be very boring. Of course we are all going to have different ideas on parenting and thank God for that!

Rosy - I am glad you weren't offended by anything on the termination thread. You did ask for people's experiences and a lot of experiences were talked about, good and bad. Hopefully that thread might help someone else in the same position. I hope things are going well for you know and that the emotional scars you must be left with are healing

Enid - you did say "even Rosy got some dodgy ones" when referring to the thread on termination, so you must feel that some of those posts were inappropriate?

As for not wanting to go on the Mumsnet meet up, well why not for Heaven's sake? Do you all shy away from debates such as these? This is not insult-throwing, as I see it anyway, but a straightforward debate about SAHMs and Working Mums. I enjoy listening to other people's points of view and I'm not afraid to say if I disagree with them. I'll tell you what, being a SAHM means that I very rarely get to have these 'intellectual' discussions, so it's a joy when you come across such a juicy discussion as this!

Sorry LisaV but I do think that many of the comments here about the motivations of women who work full time and who put young children into nurseries go beyond the bounds of a healthy, robust discussions and are downright hurtful. As an old time user I din't know where all this aggression is coming from.

Croppy, have just looked back over the thread and can really only see a couple of posts about paid working mothers which are pretty extreme. Yes, it is heated, but I don't think it unneccesarily aggressive or, as Scummymummy says, full of bile and vitriol.

I totally agree with you Lisav. Isn't that what these boards are for to express our opinions.
Like you say it would be boring if we all thought the same.
I just think some have been offended from these differing opinions but I can't understand why?
There has been just as much said here derogatory towards SAHM's more infact sseing as the majority here are WM's. But it just seems to be the WM's coming out with the sarcastic and bitchy posts.
You keep refering to yourselves as evil?
What is that about ? No where here has anyone been called evil.
It just erodes a sensible discussion into spmething childish and silly.
Like I said in an earlier post if you are confident in your own choices for you and your family . Then it really matter at all what anyones opinion on the web is. How can you be hurt and upset by a differing opinion? You must realise people here will have differnt views to your own.
So what if they dont like nurseries or whatever . Just think Sod them!! Iam doing what I think is right!
BTW just to clarify my stance on this. I do not think working mothers are evil or any worse a mother than Iam.
If a law came out tomorrow banning mums from working full time I would be horrified. Because I srtongly beleive that every women should have the CHOICE to do what they feel is best.
My choice was to stay at home because thats what I feel is best for me and my children. But I do not think any less of a woman who is working. That is nothing to do with me it is everyones own personal opinion.
I just thought I could come on here and give my opinion after all it is the net I thought we could do that here without anyone getting upset in real life.
But I think I'll stick to the fluffy threads from now on!

I think some people get upset because they don't have a choice, Callie. Having someone say on a thread 'I made the choice to stay at home' or I made the choice to go to work', just rubs salt in an open wound.

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Guess I can understand that Kia. I suppose I didn't think of it that way. I assumed that the WM's posting here were happy with their position from some of the comments towards sahm's I assumed it was not a sought after ideal for them to stay at home
But I think I can understand that if someone was unhappy with working full time this thread might make them feel worse.
Heres me going on about everyone being at peace with thir own choice so not caring what anyone thinks when all the time they might long to have the choice.
I apologise to anyone in that position .

[protesting]I like the words "bile" and "vitriol"![/protesting]

Sorry Enid, I'm a bit of an exaggerating posturer on occasion.

My opinion is:
Mum = Good
Stay at Home & Working = Irrelevant

[protesting]I like the words "bile" and "vitriol"![/protesting]

Sorry Enid, I'm a bit of an exaggerating posturer on occasion.

My opinion is:
Mum = Good
Stay at Home & Working = Irrelevant

Confession - my son is 10 months old & I have only just discovered Teleteubbies - & now most mornings I do plonk him down in front of it whilst I read the paper - before we go off to our voluntary work/walk/swimming/shopping/housework or whatever - I suppose this makes me a really bad SAHM! Has to be in another room of course, can't stand it myself!! (NB: is Teletubbies for a baby/toddler any worse than us spending time on Mumsnet?)

Seriously, I think the point about age is quite relevant, as I have mentioned in other threads, I am a pretty ancient mum at nearly 44 and feel very confident in my past career - I certainly got as far as I wanted on the 'ladder' & was very well rewarded in terms of salary, perks, intellectual stimulation (!!) etc. I left, not to have a baby, but to go back to college to follow other interests. I know that I am very lucky to have the 'choice' to stay at home & fully appreciate that others are not so fortunate, & try and make this point every time I add a comment ... but I am wary that we can spend so much time trying to be politically correct on this site that we may miss adding postings.