My boss reprimanded me and some of my other coworkers for avoiding a smelly coworker.

[joel666]

I am a 34 year old male and i work as a web developer. I am fairly good at it my work and get along with most other coworkers.

But there is this one coworker that started 2 months ago. I will refer to him as tom.

Tom is good at his job but there is problem with him.

Ever since i met him for the first time, he always had a strong stench to him. His odor is a mix of weed and unwashed body odor and on top of that, his breath smells really bad.

But i always tried being polite but me and some of my other coworkers who also noticed how bad he smells avoid him but we tried not to be rude about it.

For examples. When tom would sit near us, my coworkers and me would tell each other "why don't we go seat over there. This table is a lot cleaner. Why don't we use this computer instead. This one is kinda slow. When you come back from the bathroom, join us on that other table next to the window.

And when we would be in the lunch break room, we would stand there, wait and see where tom would sit and we would make sure not to sit next to him.

But on the bad luck that he would sit right in front of us, i would cover my nose with my hand. And my other coworkers would do the same.

But again we try not to show our disgusts. We don't gag or make any disgusted facial expressions.

But just a week ago, our bosse called me into his office and he tells me that tom feels excluded and me and the other coworkers are creating a toxic work environment and my clique attitude will nog be tolerated.

I admitted to my boss why we avoid him. I told him that i cannot stand the stench coming off tom.

My boss argued and said this is disrespectful and he could very well have a health condition that causes him to smell unpleasant.

My other coworkers later told me that they also got reprimanded.

How would you deal with this ? Health or not, i cannot stand smelly people. I try not to be rude but when someone smells bad my first instinct is to avoid them.

I’d just be neutral and avoid Tom where I could. He certainly wouldn’t be invited to my home. That’s not being unkind, I’m entitled to lol after my own interests.

(No doubt another comment you’ll pick holes in)

I’m not. I’m telling people to not be intentionally unkind, and that my expectation of people is that they operate with respect. I’m hoping you can see a difference.

OP also isn’t a woman, so not sure how we’ve made that leap.

I have not said to treat him like he doesn’t stink. I have said that making remarks to colleagues about said stink, making a point of showing him you don’t want him around, a coordinated group effort to isolate someone, is unkind.

You have said yourself (I think) that OP could have moved away but handled it more sensitively - so quite what your problem is with me saying the same thing, I don’t know.

Maybe your problem is that I’m a self confessed occasional smell and that’s intrinsically offensive. I don’t work with you, don’t worry about it.

No that’s fair enough. There’s loads of people I wouldn’t invite into my home. It’s your space and you can obviously decide who’s in it.

The OP described behaviour that IMO was intentionally unkind, and unpleasant. That’s the behaviour I’ve been discussing.

That has evidently been getting a few backs up, but spades are spades and bullying is bullying.

The comment about the “BeKind” movement as more general. That I don’t understand, honestly, what issue people have with the idea of being kind, or why you’d admit that you have an issue with being kind 😂.

I have no issue with being kind but sometimes I see posts on here where people, usually women, are expected to be kind when it’s not in their interests, the one I mentioned before being a case in point. There has to be a balance between being kind and looking after yourself.

I actually agree with you that OP and his colleagues were bullying Tom. Fine that that they don’t want to sit with him, I wouldn’t, but getting up and moving en masse is wrong. As I said before I would look very differently at someone I knew had a disability than someone who just appeared to be lazy and unhygienic. No one should have to disclose their medical issues but sometimes it can make life easierz

My concern is people who so critically oppose “BeKind” that they aim for the antithesis. Like a protest to being kind that ends up with intentional nastiness.

The tone of some of the comments on here has been case in point, IMO. Tom the stinker, Tom the shower shirker, Tom “the smelly guy”, Tom the unwashed.

Very little benefit of the doubt from some people. Completely unnecessary nastiness.

He may not be “real,” in the sense that he’s a person being discussed on Mumsnet and we’ve never met him, but some of the shitty things said on this thread, and the vehement opposing of his “stench,” actually play into real things that some of us have experienced IRL.

As I’ve said previously, politely choosing to move away from someone is no issue, bullying someone is. The disgusting tone used by some on here hasn’t been eye opening, I know they exist, but the boldness of expressing it “out loud” definitely shocks me.

You don't understand at all. You think there's just kind and unkind, when the vast part of life is never tst any extreme. It's neutrality.

There’s nothing neutral or kind, or pleasant, about referring to someone as Stinky Tom.

Forgive me for assuming that’s how you’d speak about someone IRL.

What kind of things is it OK to discriminate about?

Respectfully yours is the toxic BS my friend. I spent my career supporting disabled people who have been treated appallingly in the workplace for want of simple adjustment to solve their problem.

I’ve met many many employers like yourself. And it doesn’t surprise me that you think disability employment law is toxic BS. Because you’d rather condemn it as such to justify your efforts to circumvent it by simply not employing disabled people, than to recognise the need to protect disabled employees from the very attitude you’ve demonstrated here. That’s what’s toxic.

Don’t understand the question, sorry. Where have l said it’s OK to discriminate at all ?

what is toxic is people that make their living by inflicting their ideology on others

having said that, I have no further interest in reading your DEI propaganda,

wishing you all the best, my friend

I'm disabled. Sometimes I struggle to wash because I need a few days recovery after a shower. I do everything in my power to ensure I don't smell.

I wouldn't want to work with Stinky Tom.

Fair enough and that's a good thing about disability law being taken seriously as it should be . The thing is, you've responded to @TheGuineaPigsAreConspiringWorldDomination post but that poster hasn't mentioned a single thing that any tribunal in the land would consider to be discriminatory or bullying behaviour . In what world other than a truly bonkers one would colleagues coping with a bad smell by opening Windows, sniffing a handkerchief with essential oils on it or using air freshener in the office, or just not sitting near a smelly colleague be considered bullying? I imagine any court would laugh at a claim like this regardless of how disabled the claimant was.

As a boss I would not think highly of someone who smelled coming crying to me "I'm being picked on because my colleagues won't sit with me and they hold a handkerchief with Vicks on it over their nose when I'm near them!" I wouldn't take it seriously at all.

I'm like you disability wise myself . If people wouldn't sit with me or if they opened a window or sprayed air freshener around it wouldn't be bullying just them making sure they are comfortable . For me to run to a boss crying I'm being bullied is pretty selfish really .

Sorry, you said 'they have to be careful their behaviour can’t be deemed exclusionary or discriminatory' so I was wondering if excluding or discriminating against someone whose smell upsets lots of other people is valid.

The short version is that discrimination is actually never okay.

Pretty stupid assumption, and you are not forgiven. This is a forum, terminology is very different to real life.

Although if stinky Tom is stinky and is tom, it's fairly neutral, being utterly factual.

If Tom has a disability which causes the smell and he’s unable to do anything about it, then any way in which the OP and colleagues have behaved previously could be seen as discriminatory by reason of disability, so that can’t carry on once a disability has been established as the cause. Tom has a right to be treated fairly and with dignity. It’s a really difficult situation to deal with because the other employees have a right to a comfortable workplace and Tom has rights as a disabled person in the workplace - but one doesn’t trump the other if you see what I mean. The manager needs to sort this out as soon as possible and before the behaviour of other employees, which may just be an attempt to avoid the smell and nothing against Tom himself, gets to the point where Tom notices and makes a complaint.

Yep, this.

I’ll get over it.

Stinky Tom is really obviously not the guy’s name, is it. Your attitude about a man you’ve never met, have not smelled, and have no real idea why he smells - is telling. You’ve been fairly rude about the guy throughout.

You’re coming off like exactly the kind of person that would refer to him as Stinky Tom to colleagues in person, if you worked in that environment.

Nobody says you have to like, or want to sit in someone else’s BO. But the way you talk about it tells me everything I need to know.

At some point this week you’re gonna be done biting at me for suggesting that being nasty to people is wrong, right?

@Rosscameasdoody Tom has a right to be treated fairly and the colleagues have an equal right to ensure their own comfort and wellbeing even if that means not sitting near Tom or maybe needing to use air freshener. Tom is a big boy and can manage eating alone in the cafeteris.

Again, missing the point. As a boss, if someone disabled came to you complaining that the colleagues were behaving like this in response to a disability that they had disclosed to you previously (as seems the case here) and nothing had been done, then they would have a valid case. You would have to take it seriously and either find a reasonable adjustment, or if none is possible, then let Tom go. No court would laugh, because disability discrimination is a serious issue. The main point is that if the smell is down to disability it’s likely not something that Tom can do anything about. And if the manager hasn’t taken steps to resolve the situation to the satisfaction of all concerned, then a tribunal would rule that the managers’ inaction had left Tom open to discriminatory behaviour.

Nope. The manager has a duty to act promptly and fairly in finding reasonable adjustment so that Tom isn’t subjected to unfair, disrespectful and possibly discriminatory behaviour pertaining to a health condition he can do nothing about. The manager either works with other employees to find a solution agreeable to all, or if that’s not possible then he has to let Tom go. But the point is he has to act quickly because this is a very tricky situation and the longer he lets it go on, the further it’s likely to escalate.

@Rosscameasdoody So if a colleague is gagging on the smell it's discrimination for them to make sure the can breathe clean air? No, it's not. No court is going to consider using air freshener or avoiding sitting near a colleague at lunch to be discrimination just because it's caused by a disability . Tom can't do anything about his smell, but his colleagues can make sure their lives are made easier by opening Windows, covering their noses with a hanky and sitting far away from Tom. That way nobody is offended or upset . Not one of those things in law would be regarded as bullying and discrimination. I think for the colleagues to take measures to avoid the smell is a good compromise . If Tom doesn't like it maybe office work isn't the right career for him.

there is nothing discriminatory about opening a window or using air freshener to make your workplace more comfortable .

The OP has already said he won't use deodorant or body sprays, doesn't change clothes etc. If someone disabled and decent was aware they smelled, they'd do everything they could to mask it. It would be embarrassing. Stinky Tom knows he stinks. Stinky Tom doesn't care. He'd rather make everyone uncomfortable instead of having a wash. Maybe he gets off on it.