My boss reprimanded me and some of my other coworkers for avoiding a smelly coworker.

[joel666]

I am a 34 year old male and i work as a web developer. I am fairly good at it my work and get along with most other coworkers.

But there is this one coworker that started 2 months ago. I will refer to him as tom.

Tom is good at his job but there is problem with him.

Ever since i met him for the first time, he always had a strong stench to him. His odor is a mix of weed and unwashed body odor and on top of that, his breath smells really bad.

But i always tried being polite but me and some of my other coworkers who also noticed how bad he smells avoid him but we tried not to be rude about it.

For examples. When tom would sit near us, my coworkers and me would tell each other "why don't we go seat over there. This table is a lot cleaner. Why don't we use this computer instead. This one is kinda slow. When you come back from the bathroom, join us on that other table next to the window.

And when we would be in the lunch break room, we would stand there, wait and see where tom would sit and we would make sure not to sit next to him.

But on the bad luck that he would sit right in front of us, i would cover my nose with my hand. And my other coworkers would do the same.

But again we try not to show our disgusts. We don't gag or make any disgusted facial expressions.

But just a week ago, our bosse called me into his office and he tells me that tom feels excluded and me and the other coworkers are creating a toxic work environment and my clique attitude will nog be tolerated.

I admitted to my boss why we avoid him. I told him that i cannot stand the stench coming off tom.

My boss argued and said this is disrespectful and he could very well have a health condition that causes him to smell unpleasant.

My other coworkers later told me that they also got reprimanded.

How would you deal with this ? Health or not, i cannot stand smelly people. I try not to be rude but when someone smells bad my first instinct is to avoid them.

The point is, it depends on how an employment tribunal would see the behaviour if it turns out that Tom does have a disability which causes or contributes to the smell, and he ultimately loses his job. The past behaviour OP has described could be seen as discriminatory if it continues after a disability has been declared. OP’s boss has a duty to all the employees, not just Tom, regardless of any disability as a contributing factor. They can’t just let the situation continue unchecked and if no reasonable adjustment is possible, then Tom could reasonably be let go. Similarly if there’s no disability - it’s then a disciplinary matter and could end in dismissal if Tom doesn’t follow procedures put in place to improve.

No it can’t if your sensitive your actually going to puke regardless.

now for the conspiring no they didn’t they just can’t stand the smell of Tom but don’t have the balls to tell him that and instead made excuses. It was handled badly and someone needs to tell Tom.

You’re missing the point. If the smell is in any way linked to disability, then their behaviour could be seen as discriminatory. The employer has to shut that behaviour down while they deal with the situation. If a disability has been declared then it doesn’t matter what you, the boss, or anyone else thinks, or whether you are ‘buying it’ - the law has to be followed and the onus is on the boss to find reasonable adjustment that suits everyone involved, not just Tom. The law on disability doesn’t allow for other employees to be disadvantaged in consideration of the disabled person. But neither does it allow for Tom to be treated with disrespect. Disability is a legally protected characteristic and employers have to tread carefully and within the law.

“why don't we go seat over there. This table is a lot cleaner.”

“When we would be in the lunch break room, we would stand there, wait and see where tom would sit and we would make sure not to sit next to him.”

“But on the bad luck that he would sit right in front of us, i would cover my nose with my hand. And my other coworkers would do the same.”

Nope. No conspiring, ganging up or intentional exclusion going on here.

The someone who needs to have a conversation with Tom is his manager, so they can work out what steps to take next. The team don’t even have to be privy to that information, if Tom doesn’t want them to be.

Tom needs a conversation to manage his condition, or his hygiene, whichever it is and however that looks. His colleagues need to grow up.

no. this is what YOU want to read into it.

"he could very well" but he could very well not.. logic and statistics would support the soap dodger case.

the boss was just speculating about why stinky stinks, shifting the burden to his employees as he is a spinless amoeba.

and before you go all "ohhh he cannot disclose bla bla bla". true, the boss cannot tell people the details of the condition (assuming there is one) but he surely can just indicate in clear terms that the stench is caused by a hidden disability (ablutophobia?) or a medical condition (although I'm not sure how you square that circle with the stench of weed..)

if someone suffers from Tourrette, surely you would inform others that it's not a natural condition to go around being rude to others but a medical one.

I'd rather lose one employee that bothers many than lose many because I'm unwilling to have an uncomfortable conversation.

companies are not charities or places of courteous socialisation: you are paid to work and deliver value, anything that undermines this goal should be removed.
be it a soap dodger, a racist imecile, a toxic social justice warrior or a political activist of any flavour

Handled extremely badly. You may think it's not 'picking on him' but it's unpleasant behaviour and he will sense something is wrong.
You should ask to speak to him privately and sensitively bring up his hygiene problem. He's probably completely unaware of how bad it is, as people become nose blind of smells. Ask him if he is neurodivergent, people with ADHD, ASD, Depression, BPD often have difficulties in cleanliness, tidiness and wellbeing. Being friendly and helping him find a solution for everyone is a much kinder approach.

I’m not reading anything into it at all. Zilch, Nada. Going on what the OP has written about the manager hinting at disability. All I’ve done is clarify what would happen in the event disability is declared. This is from professional experience as a disability outreach worker and the only point I’m making is that once Tom has declared a disability the employer has to tread carefully and within the law. Logic and statistics are totally irrelevant when you’re dealing with real life - you have to look at what’s in front of you, work within existing law, keep your own opinions to yourself and stop your employees from engaging in any behaviour that could be construed as discriminatory until things are settled.

Companies may not be places of ‘comfortable socialisation’ but they are subject to employment law, and as such have to deal with the problems presented by disabled employees within the law, once it’s been established that a disability exists. Anything else is asking for trouble.

if someone suffers from Tourrette, surely you would inform others that it's not a natural condition to go around being rude to others but a medical one.

No, you wouldn’t. Unless the employee agrees for you to share any of the details, the disability and the conversation declaring it has to be kept confidential. That’s why I think Tom has declared a disability - the employer can’t come out and tell anyone, so he’s hinting at it, hoping that the problem will go away. That’s not acceptable because the employer has to consider everyone involved, not just Tom.

Does this mean, then, that ANY inappropriate/intolerable/offensive behaviour has to be endured until you can report it to the manager - just in case the perpetrator may have a disability or medical condition that makes them do it?

If a creepy colleague is saying lewd and inappropriate things to a female colleague, with no managers or senior staff around, is she being discriminatory and bullying in actively distancing herself from him until she can report it - just in case it might be some kind of disability or medical condition that is causing him to do it, and it isn't because he's just a deliberately creepy horrible weirdo as is extremely likely the actual case?

You clearly don’t understand any of what’s been posted about disability law, and are unable to interpret what’s been posted by those who do, so why are you still posting ?

Firstly, that’s not the same. Secondly, it takes 2 minutes to send an email.

“Hi (insert manager here),

I appreciate you may be too busy right this second to discuss my smelly colleague, however please have a word with them about it as it’s making me want to run away.

If you could let me know how this goes, that would be ideal, otherwise I might have to resign. If not, just make the smell stop.

Ta very much,
Concerned employee.”

Hope this helps!

This isn’t right either. If there’s a problem you report it to the manager - that’s what they’re there for. If, when the manager interviews Tom, disability is declared as the source of the smell then the manager has a duty to find reasonable adjustment to the satisfaction of not just the disabled person, but to that of those working with him and therefore affected on a daily basis. There is no option to do nothing. So many people here not recognising that if there is a disability then Tom has rights enshrined in law, which includes not being subjected to behaviour which could be interpreted as discriminatory, and being entitled to at least the possibility of reasonable adjustment before he’s sacked out of hand.

The point I was making was that they could email their concern to that manager, or at least email to ask for a meeting to air their concern.

Have a chat with him and try to find a resolution please, was the point. If there is no resolution available, I know we’ve covered what the managers options are.

The (intended as tongue in cheek) email was to get that conversation with the manager started.

Please try to remember that I know Tom's disability rights. They’re my rights. I know how the meeting of declaring the disability/condition goes. They were my meetings.

Then you should also know that once OP/colleagues have made their concerns known to the manager and Tom has declared a disability, OP has no further right to know the details of either the disability or the discussion between Tom and the manager - unless Tom agrees to share. I’m totally with you as regards something you posted upthread - the fact that it’s much easier for the disabled person if they are honest from the start and agree to share the details of the disability to the rest of their colleagues. It makes life so much easier for everyone and facilitates finding a solution mutually agreeable to all. But in my experience in many cases disabled people are suspicious of the motives of others because of previous discrimination, and as a result are reluctant to share, and that’s Tom’s right too.

Did you deliberately post that in an obvious bullying-style tone to make some kind of ironic point?

I've read the whole thread and I completely get that, if somebody has a disability with unfortunate and challenging social side-effects, you may well have to just put up with it - but I still don't get how you can be brought to book for not respecting the presence of a disability when nobody has told you about it (no need to give specific details); and the overwhelming majority of people with those symptoms are not disabled at all but rather simply choose never to wash and don't seem to care about their colleagues who have to live with it.

That was kind of my point.

But I see that this thread is going round in circles now, so I'll acquiesce to your PA vibe and leave it there.

This is horrible. I have a condition called hyperhydrosis,
No matter what I do I have BO, minutes after showering and applying deodorant. Nast people.

But why does the needs of the malodorous person come before the needs of their colleagues? I mean, I get that bullying is wrong but what if the other colleagues are struggling to tolerate the smell?

Would they be allowed to open a window, use room or car fresheners, sniff a handkerchief covered in Vicks or peppermint oil, refuse to not have lunch with the smelly person (like they could tactfully make an excuse or slip out to lunch) or would those things be considered bullying? I wouldn't bully a smelly colleague or anyone but not would I just suck it up. I would quietly make sure I felt comfortable in my workplace. If someone gets offended, that's their right but it's not something I would give head space to.

I am sorry that you have this condition but you are the exception.

Plus I assume you don't also smell of weed?

I wouldn't bully you but I would do all I could to make the smell more tolerable, e.g. I would ask for window to be open, air fresheners would be used (not the spray kind as I struggle with asthma and others might do also) and yes I would put a handkerchief to my nose if need be. I don't consider that bullying. I would call that considering everybody's needs including yours. Would have been better if the OP and the other colleagues had done these kinds of things and also just sat apart from the colleague quietly without childishly holding their noses and making a big deal about it .

@kiana2015 I'm not saying my ways of managing it listed above would be perfect, but it's a way that wouldn't cause someone to feel bullied or their feelings hurt. I would hate to do that someone. Though for me I don't find BO anywhere near as bad as something like weed or "someone hadn't washed for days" smells . You are doing your best to wash and apply deodorant and your situation isn't your fault.

If the smell is just down to bad hygiene and something ‘Tom’ can fix himself, then it’s a disciplinary matter and management should be telling him it’s unacceptable, then putting in a plan and timescale for him to improve, and offering support if needed. So in that scenario no, the malodorous person definitely doesn’t come before the rest of the staff.

If a disability is declared as the source/contributing to the smell, then the manager has a duty to find reasonable adjustment so that the situation is resolved for all. This could include Tom working from home for example. If no reasonable adjustment can be found and the employer has genuinely exhausted all options, then it’s not illegal for Tom to be let go.

ln both scenarios the employer has a duty to try to ‘fix’ the situation for both Tom and his colleagues, and if they allow it to continue unchecked they are leaving themselves open to possible legal action by other employees and from Tom himself if he perceives the behaviour of his colleagues to be discriminatory.

What it comes down to is that disabled people have rights enshrined in law, and if Tom’s smell is due to disability, you may not give headspace to your actions possibly causing him offence, but the law will if those actions are discriminatory, bullying or exclusionary for reasons of disability. That’s why management need to sort this out ASAP because the longer it continues the more likely it is that someone will seek legal recourse.

Great post @Rosscameasdoody

That's horrible for you. But if you smell bad enough that people can't bear it, it is NOT nasty of them to stay away from you.
You're not the only one that matters.

Hyperhydrosis is an awful condition, that I know all too well can be incredibly embarrassing and difficult to manage. The treatment options are also very limited.

You’re obviously not the only person that matters, but you do matter and should be able to live without carrying stigma and shame around with you. It’s a shame that we can’t.

Some people aren’t going to want to deal with it or be around it, and that’s alright - we don’t need everyone’s approval to exist.

Not intended to be bullying, no, sorry, but what you posted has been done to death upthread. And no-one is saying that other employees just have to put up with it - the manager has a duty to resolve for all via reasonable adjustment if possible. Potentially in this case by Tom working from home. But as has been said many times before, reasonable is the key word here, and if no reasonable solution can be reached then it’s not illegal for Tom to be let go if his disability can’t be accommodated and is having an effect on his co-workers.

The question of confidentiality is a difficult one. If the root cause of the problem is disability, then Tom can declare it to his manager. But unless Tom chooses to share the details of his disability with the rest of the staff, then the manager isn’t at liberty to disclose it. The best the manager can do is to reassure the staff that they’re aware of the problem and trying to resolve it, and that in the meantime they should stop their present behaviour as it could be construed as workplace bullying.

Obviously it would be better for Tom to share so that colleagues have a better understanding of what’s going on, and at some point he may well have to if any reasonable adjustment involves them or their co-operation, but ultimately once management have identified that an employee has a disability doing nothing is not an option because the other employees have rights too.

Not understanding the PA vibe thing. My interest in the subject of the thread is purely from many years spent as a disability support worker, during which l came across similar situations, and as I’ve said before, sadly not all of them could be resolved. My main concern is that many posters here seem to think that the solution is simply for employees to take Tom aside and tell him he smells. Since he’s already spoken to his manager and potentially declared a disability, l’m baffled as to how they think this would help - a) because he’s already aware of the smell, and b) because if it’s as a result of a medical condition there isn’t much he can do about it.

And you’re right. In the majority of cases the smell will be because of personal hygiene issues. That may well be the case here, and if so then it’s a disciplinary matter between Tom and the manager - but again the details of any agreed plan to improve is confidential between Tom and his manager, and nothing to do with his co-workers - all they need to know is that the situation is being dealt with.