My boss reprimanded me and some of my other coworkers for avoiding a smelly coworker.

[joel666]

I am a 34 year old male and i work as a web developer. I am fairly good at it my work and get along with most other coworkers.

But there is this one coworker that started 2 months ago. I will refer to him as tom.

Tom is good at his job but there is problem with him.

Ever since i met him for the first time, he always had a strong stench to him. His odor is a mix of weed and unwashed body odor and on top of that, his breath smells really bad.

But i always tried being polite but me and some of my other coworkers who also noticed how bad he smells avoid him but we tried not to be rude about it.

For examples. When tom would sit near us, my coworkers and me would tell each other "why don't we go seat over there. This table is a lot cleaner. Why don't we use this computer instead. This one is kinda slow. When you come back from the bathroom, join us on that other table next to the window.

And when we would be in the lunch break room, we would stand there, wait and see where tom would sit and we would make sure not to sit next to him.

But on the bad luck that he would sit right in front of us, i would cover my nose with my hand. And my other coworkers would do the same.

But again we try not to show our disgusts. We don't gag or make any disgusted facial expressions.

But just a week ago, our bosse called me into his office and he tells me that tom feels excluded and me and the other coworkers are creating a toxic work environment and my clique attitude will nog be tolerated.

I admitted to my boss why we avoid him. I told him that i cannot stand the stench coming off tom.

My boss argued and said this is disrespectful and he could very well have a health condition that causes him to smell unpleasant.

My other coworkers later told me that they also got reprimanded.

How would you deal with this ? Health or not, i cannot stand smelly people. I try not to be rude but when someone smells bad my first instinct is to avoid them.

Nail in head. I know an ex weed addict who saw a doctor because of excessive sweating. He was told that the abuse of cannabis can damage sweat glands, and that his only options are to shower twice daily or get injections under his armpits. As an ex stoner his job isn't really an issue - he doesn't work - but your colleague @joel666 could take a clean t shirt for a quick change.
I think you should have asked your boss ro speak to the coworker about their hygiene, rather than just actively moving away.

She may not be the only one that matters, but in the context of the workplace situation discussed here, she has rights. Disability is a protected characteristic and colleagues have a responsibility not to behave in a way that is bullying or discriminatory for reasons of disability. My own opinion is that it’s easier for the disabled person to be open and honest about the effects of their condition - especially when it’s likely to affect others they work with. That way everyone understands what’s going on and in my experience, for the most part are more than willing to help towards a resolution.

Your behaviour is bullying, and exclusionary- and quite frankly bloody childish sounding. When the personal grooming first showed itself as an issue you should have approached management then and had them deal with it- because being noxious is also not an acceptable practise on the workplace. Raise it as a formal group grievance- you currently all look very childish.

There isn’t a single poster here who can possibly say whether the smell is down to disability or not. OP’s description of the smell is like weed - doesn’t mean it is, that’s just an opinion. And there are many health conditions which cause smell - including certain cancers and hormonal conditions. It seems that tom has already spoken to the manager and has likely declared a disability. So hauling him in and tackling him about the smell as a disciplinary matter is no longer appropriate and could land everyone concerned in trouble for breach of disability law.

Just a quick FYI.

Those injections you refer to are no longer covered by some NHS trusts, as it uses Botox and is therefore classed as a cosmetic surgery. Mine was revoked about 10 years ago.

The options to get it are search the country for an NHS provider still offering it, or pay to go private.

I used to get 16 in each, once every 8 weeks. It would cost approx £500 a round to self fund that.

No. But the balance of probability is strongly weighted in one direction, if someone regularly stinks of weed, it's much more likely because they smoke a lot of weed. If they smell unwashed, it's highly likely because they are unwashed. MN loves zebras, but it's probably a horse.

Nobody is in breach of disability law for not sitting next to him, either way.

Which protected characteristic are they discriminating against?

The OP makes a good point. Any one of you 'holiers' would move position on a bus if the person next to you stank.

Everyone saying the OP needs to 'be an adult' and speak to Tom about how he smells hasn't worked in a modern workplace, where he, the OP, would be disciplined for bullying Tom by telling him. Remember we now have a work culture where women are reporting male colleagues to HR if a man compliments a new hairstyle!

The failure/s here are a) a no-blame/victim culture where you'd have to be pretty brave to tackle such an issue man to man, and b) a failure of management who are seeking to label you as bullies without addressing the core reason you are avoiding this person, because I guess he is also afraid of getting accused of bullying by HIS line-manager.

An aside- I wonder how many respondents here are secretly a little afraid that their low grade sense of ostracism, not being quite 'part of the team' in their workplace is due to some personal hygiene issue?

So, what did the playmate's mother say when you diplomatically raised it with her that her daughter smelled?

Actually, reading so many replies on here, I can entirely see how women have ended up having to tolerate, yea, celebrate men in their single sex spaces as we castigate others for refusing to tolerate the intolerable.

#BeKind has a lot to answer for.

We don’t have to make every conversation about bathrooms.

When you have to sit next to someone who stinks, it’s so so unpleasant and off putting. Regardless of the whys (and everyone here seems to think the stinkers are entirely blameless), it’s just a day ruiner. It is up to management to have that conversation. I’ll have to have it soon with a member of my team who wears the same clothes every day and smells of stale cigarettes and unwashed clothes. We are a small office and the majority don’t have to be uncomfortable all day, in the name of #bekind

Do you mean, be very gentle when you tell him he probably only smells bad because he has a MI?

The balance of probability in this case depends on whether Tom has actually declared a disability - which seems likely given the managers’ hints. And nobody is in breach of disability law for not sitting next to him, no, l agree. But they have to be careful their behaviour can’t be deemed exclusionary or discriminatory in any way until this is sorted. And that’s the difficult bit, given that the smell affects everyone. All the more reason for the manager not to dither.

If Tom has declared a disability as the cause of, or a contributing factor to the smell then disability is the protected characteristic. OP said that after Tom had spoken to the manager they were all reprimanded for their behaviour and manager hinted at disability. So seems likely.

But the solution is simple. Raise it with your manager and ask them to intervene. If disability isn’t the cause then it’s disciplinary. Either way the manager can’t just allow the situation to continue once it’s brought to his attention because it affects everyone. No one is saying the stinker is blameless, just that if it is disability related then there’s likely not much they can do about it, and it has to be handled according to disability law. And that law doesn’t dictate that the stinker’s needs have to be considered above everyone else affected.

This isn’t about BeKind. It’s about the correct and legal way to handle the situation whether it’s down to disability, or just bad hygiene. Everyone has to be considered not just Tom, as everyone is affected.

Firstly it’s not down to OP or any other colleague to speak to Tom - that’s what management are there for. It should have been reported to management as soon as it became evident there was a problem and then left in their hands to sort.

Secondly, you absolutely and categorically cannot directly ask someone in the workplace if they have a disability - neurodivergent or otherwise, and even if it’s staring you in the face. That puts you in breach of the law and however kindly meant (and l do get where you’re coming from) can land you and the employer in a world of trouble. If the person wants to disclose or share then fine but putting them on the spot by asking is an absolute no no. If and when the employee is interviewed about the problem the decision to declare a disability is a personal one - if they declare, then the manager goes down the reasonable adjustment route, if not it’s disciplinary.

Unfortunately some posters do seem to think it comes down to BeKind. One suggested OP should invite ‘Tom’ home for dinner and a shower! That’s fine if it’s a friend but a new work colleague who they don’t even want to sit next to?

I’m not sure why anyone would want or aim to “Be Unkind.” Who would be intentionally unkind, and why?

We can say that “Tom” is unkind by stinking the place out, if you believe it’s intentional (which I don’t), but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to be unkind. It’s not tit for tat, even if you do think he’s at fault.

Decency costs nothing!

Sorry to hear that but you acknowledge that you do have BO and that it does impact on others and I'm assuming you make an effort to not add to the natural issue by somking weed and not showering.

Hyperhydrosis is a medical condition and it can be treated. I hope you get better.

Why do you think that not Being Kind is actively being UnKind? That's a bizarre attitude.

It's not unkind to avoid being around someone who stinks. It's neutral it's not anything.

How about you be kind to toms coworkers and stop obsessing about just the smelly guy?

you see, its all this toxic BS about walking on eggshells that makes people literally hate those in HR.

I sincerely loathe people who have made their life goal to police our social relationships and have the arrogance to tell us all what we can do, when and how we should do or don't do thing and especially those who (with the excuse of kidness, inclusivity etc etc) use it to bully the vast majority into a behaviour that is compliant with their own SJW views.

people should be free to discuss whatever they want openly, respectfully and sincerely. without limitation or thought-police intervention

on a side note, because of people like you, employers like me decide to sidstep the potential issues and risks of employee labour litigation and we do setup selection processes that while complying with the law on the face of it are just designed at discarding any potential outlier that could later on become a problem. we end up with a standardised workforce and many great but slightly odd candidates are left out just for the fear of people like you making it their life goal to raise conflict in the work place.

I mean. Unkind is the opposite of kind, isn’t it. I’m not being clever here, it actually is.

I genuinely, honestly don’t understand why anyone would complain that they “have” to be kind. Just seems like an odd hill to die on.

“I won’t be nice, and you can’t make me!”

Weird.

Yes, but it's not about opposites, for fucks sake.

The opposite of giving you flowers (kind) would be stealing your flowers (unkind). It's wouldn't be not giving you flowers because I have no reason to (neutral).

You don't get why anyone would complain about having to be kind? You think it's kind to treat stinky Tom as if he doesn't stink. I think he makes me feels sick and I don't want to be near him. You asking me to BeKind is asking me to.put Toms feelings far above my own comfort. It's expecting me to BeKind to.Tom by being unkind to myself.

BeKind is a stick used to beat women into submission. Put yourself last, always centre others (usually men). It's bullshit. Stop telling women to Be fucking Kind.