My employer's attitude to staying on unpaid

[Pistachiovillian]

I have been at this company since the beginning of February so not long, and I am still on probation.

I work as a Case Manager which is a fancy way of saying I sort out paperwork that's been sent by various people to/within our company, but all to do with one specific thing. It's an okay job, okay pay, if a bit boring.

Part of the role (I'd say 10-20% depending on the day) is answering calls from people wanting to access our service.

Anyway several times now, I've been stuck on one of these calls (they're long, requiring a clinical assessment which takes roughly 30 minutes but sometimes up to an hour) and stayed behind. One such call, last week, I took at one minute to the hour I was meant to finish at, and left an hour late.

When I first started, I asked in the work Teams chat what the protocol was for when we had this happen, do we email manager, fill in a form, just leave early/come in later-what?

My manager sent me a private message saying that because they're so flexible generally with appointments and such things, and because It's so rare that anyone has to stay behind for a call, they don't really do anything about this.

As for it being rare, I had that aforementioned hour, and then I've also had to stay behind half an hour again for the same reason yesterday. So I don't feel this is that rare.

It is true that they're flexible with appointments, in the sense that I had a hospital appointment to attend not long after I started, unexpectedly and they were absolutely fine with me leaving in the middle of the day to go to it-however I did have to make up the hours that I had missed!

They have said I can take the hour back. I have not yet spoken to anyone about the half hour as it was only yesterday.

I let my manager know about the hour the day after it happened and said I'd leave earlier/come in later on whatever day was best for her. She said she'd look at when was best for me to be MIA for an hour.

That was Friday-not got back to me yet.

If it was the odd 'one off' I'd not mind. However I don't think It's fair to 'flexibly' work lots of half hours/twenty minutes'/ whatever because we're stuck on calls, for free, continuously? That will soon add up to several hours for free? I've been very passive in my work life and worked lots of hours for free in the past and I am not willing to be a 'people pleaser' any longer at this stage in life.

WWYD here? My idea is to message manager again and say that I am now owed 1 hour thirty minutes and to let me know when I should take it back. But given what she said about them not really doing anything with this type of thing, and me not wanting to annoy anyone as I am fairly new/still on probation, I am not sure.

I may re-post this in chat for traffic but I think here is most appropriate for now.

I’d message the manager and say I’m taking an extra hour and a half lunch on x day, if this is not convenient please suggest an alternative day.

Yep, just decide yourself when you're taking the time back and let her know.

Dear manager, I finished an hour later yesterday as I was on a triage call so I'll be finishing at 4pm today and I've worked my diary around that

I agree, I think you're making this into a bigger deal than it needs to be. Working half an hour over here or there for me isn't a big deal, as long as I know that if I need to leave a bit early now and again or can turn up a bit late because the trains were late without feeling all stressed, would be fine. Similarly, knowing that I'd worked a bit late so it wouldn't be a problem to take a slightly longer lunch to get some chores done or whatever.

if youre really worried about it being unbalanced, then I'd agree that you just need to take charge and tell your manager what you'll be doing. But I'd be hesitant this early on - you're still new so you don't want a reptuation as someone who is inflexible AND you haven't yet got to a point where YOU might actually need that flexibility. In 6 months time when you find you're late every day for 2 weeks because of some issue with the school run, you might be grateful you didnt go in guns blazing.

@GerbilsForever24 I definitely couldn't just come in later/leave earlier flexibly, It's time-barred work and they're very careful about start time and how many people can be off at any given time. It's WFH, we all only get 30 mins lunch anyway.

I agree as well, you're making this into something far bigger than it is and sound very inflexible.

You started early Feb and in 3.5 months have had to work a total of 1.5 hours extra, over a total of 2 occasions. We may have different expectations, but I'd say that was very rare and not really something to be making such a big deal of. If it was an extra hour every day that would be different.

As PP said, bank the flexibility for when you need it.

I will write it down and bank it for when I need it, that's a good idea. So if in two months time I have an important appointment I could say 'I'm owed 90 minutes anyway, can I just use that?' Or such?

Well yes,but from what you've said and your manager has said, I don't think you'd have to. You could just say, "I have an important appointment next week which will take about 90 minutes and I'll be out of the office from 11:00-1230" and they'd say "fine".

Have your "banked" hours in your back pocket in case it turns out they're not as flexible as they say, but you manager has made it clear they aim for a certain amount of give and take on both sides.

They definitely wouldn't say 'fine'. I had to do an official process to take time off for the aforementioned hospital appointment. They need a certain number of people 'manning' certain procedures at given times, they stagger start and finish times, lunches all at scheduled 30 minute times, etc.

I find this attitude odd but perhaps that is because of the industry I work in. I work over my contracted hours every day. It's an hour not days.

I think it depends on whether you are paid hourly or on salary. Hourly they need to pay you.

salary- keep a running total when it gets to a day ask for TOIL

I am salaried.

Tell your boss that you're not taking calls from an hour before your finish as you don't get paid or the time back if it goes over.

No, I agree OP it's the knock on effect as well, if you had kids to pick up, an appointment etc then that extra hour isn't ok.

I work from home too, admittedly for what sounds like a much smaller organisation but a lot of phone calls. We work 9am - 5pm but phone lines are only open until 4pm mainly for this reason.

Isn't that part of being salaried though? Missed that before I posted.

Maybe not answer the phone and hour before when you have to be somewhere.

I'm calling bull on their approach to this too.

They're telling you they don't address this because of the flexibility they offer, but other than being ok one time about a short notice appointment, for which you had to make up the time for, they've shown 0 flexibility to you as an employee. They sound very inflexible if anything.

So yeah, I'd kind of push back on that.

You could ask if you should do what @gamerchick suggested, and simply not pick up in the last hour of your shift then if they have no arrangement for covering overtime.

They'd not let us do that @gamerchick unfortunately. I was busy on Friday night (I finish at 20:00) at about 19:40 and a manager asked if I were okay, can I go on the lines as nobody else available.

Honestly if you are in my team and kept a list of times you had worked over hours I wouldn't keep you. But then like your manager I am flexible about other things, appointments, parents evenings, occasional long lunches. It's give and take.

I think wait till you’re out of probation and then start reminding your manager about the additional time you’ve clocked up. I agree with others that a good way of selling it to your manager is to save it up until you next have a medical appointment and just use it for situations like that.

@ZoeyBartlett But then like your manager I am flexible about other things, appointments, parents evenings, occasional long lunches. It's give and take.

They're not, well they are in that they'll let you take an appointment during work time but it is discussed beforehand and you have to make the time up. Lunch times are strictly 30 minutes each. Lunches are also staggered so only one person is gone at any one time.

What does your contract say re: additional hours, does it refer to this anywhere?

she asked. You presumably could have said No because if not why did she ask?

@Spirallingdownwards Maybe if I'd have said 'I am not going back on the phones now because I don't want to be stuck on a call' she may have said 'there's no point you being the only one here if you're not willing to cover the lines'?

I may be wrong. But I am the only one there late, they only have one late on any given day. So she'd have a point I guess. I just felt it would have been a cheeky thing to say while I am still on probation especially.

Whilst I’m inclined to agree, nobody likes a clock watcher, the problem here is that you have no control over when you stay late.

Im relatively senior in my org, and like almost everyone at my level, there are days we literally have to log off/leave the office bang on time, and others where we can stay a little later/accept a meeting that falls outside our usual working hours.

How would anybody ever organise childcare etc?

Theyre taking the P, OP. I’d absolutely be pushing back on this and they can only respect you for it.

Thank you all.

I am going to have a look at my contract. Of course I'd not mind staying late now and again, I am quite conscientious and when I am at work I do well and am careful and thorough but yes, not knowing that I could get a call and be stuck for an hour is what I don't like.

It is more than the hour/half hour I've mentioned hence me asking the manager when I first started, what we do in such situations as I felt it'd be inevitable. I had gone over my finish time before these two mentioned incidents and I'd not nit-pick over a few minutes here and there.

When it's an early shift it isn't so bad, others are available on the lines so I have gone to do admin toward the end of my shift and not been available on the 'phones but it isn't really feasible to do that on a later shift when nobody else is there to cover.

I've worked for a similar organisation before and they had something in place, if it was more than 15 minutes you told them and they recorded it and you left early on a subsequent shift. I felt much more comfortable with that. A different organisation stipulated that you became unavailable on the phone 10 minutes before you finished. That meant more unlikely to get stuck for a long period of time.