My employer's attitude to staying on unpaid

[Pistachiovillian]

I have been at this company since the beginning of February so not long, and I am still on probation.

I work as a Case Manager which is a fancy way of saying I sort out paperwork that's been sent by various people to/within our company, but all to do with one specific thing. It's an okay job, okay pay, if a bit boring.

Part of the role (I'd say 10-20% depending on the day) is answering calls from people wanting to access our service.

Anyway several times now, I've been stuck on one of these calls (they're long, requiring a clinical assessment which takes roughly 30 minutes but sometimes up to an hour) and stayed behind. One such call, last week, I took at one minute to the hour I was meant to finish at, and left an hour late.

When I first started, I asked in the work Teams chat what the protocol was for when we had this happen, do we email manager, fill in a form, just leave early/come in later-what?

My manager sent me a private message saying that because they're so flexible generally with appointments and such things, and because It's so rare that anyone has to stay behind for a call, they don't really do anything about this.

As for it being rare, I had that aforementioned hour, and then I've also had to stay behind half an hour again for the same reason yesterday. So I don't feel this is that rare.

It is true that they're flexible with appointments, in the sense that I had a hospital appointment to attend not long after I started, unexpectedly and they were absolutely fine with me leaving in the middle of the day to go to it-however I did have to make up the hours that I had missed!

They have said I can take the hour back. I have not yet spoken to anyone about the half hour as it was only yesterday.

I let my manager know about the hour the day after it happened and said I'd leave earlier/come in later on whatever day was best for her. She said she'd look at when was best for me to be MIA for an hour.

That was Friday-not got back to me yet.

If it was the odd 'one off' I'd not mind. However I don't think It's fair to 'flexibly' work lots of half hours/twenty minutes'/ whatever because we're stuck on calls, for free, continuously? That will soon add up to several hours for free? I've been very passive in my work life and worked lots of hours for free in the past and I am not willing to be a 'people pleaser' any longer at this stage in life.

WWYD here? My idea is to message manager again and say that I am now owed 1 hour thirty minutes and to let me know when I should take it back. But given what she said about them not really doing anything with this type of thing, and me not wanting to annoy anyone as I am fairly new/still on probation, I am not sure.

I may re-post this in chat for traffic but I think here is most appropriate for now.

What would happen if you just cut the call off, put the phone down and walked out at your finishing time?

Some people will have to do that for childcare reasons anyway.

But this is 10/20% of OPs job so if lines close at 4.30 and they work til 5, there are other tasks to complete. It's the fairest option.

If the employee is expected to be flexible then so should the employer.

If OP is expected to eork over then she should be able to take that time off. Even salaried posts are so much cash in return for so many hours. Employees will give if the employer also gives. Otherwise, it's exploitation.

I would have a chat with HR explaining that flexibility is a double edged sword. If they won't eork with youbthfn look for a better job. Failing that, just don't take the calls.

Why don’t you talk us through the legal options in this situation then? Being as you’re making a fair amount of noise here.

OP has been in her job less than 6 months. We don’t know the details of her contract.

What steps are you actually suggesting she takes?

Say no.
Go to HR and say she doesn't want to do it.

No employer has the right to make employee work unpaid hours.

Someone being in a workplace less than six months, doesn't mean that they have no employee rights.

"No employer has the right to make employee work unpaid hours."

They do if its in the contract and it doesn't bring her below NMW.

Honestly, if you were my manager and were offended I didn't want to work for free then I would quit. You wouldn't be a good manager and it's not a good company. OPs company are not flexible. They say they are but show they are not.

Only if its in her contract and then they must give time off in lieu to compensate.

OP is surprised by this happening, so it's obviously not in her contract.

She didn't agree to it.

If you were my manager you'd very quickly find the your team had unionised and were being balloted for industrial action. Good luck managing the workload of an entire team alone when they're out on strike.

OP it sounds like you're in a contact centre environment. Find out which union is recognised by your employer and join. If they don't recognise a union, and you're not sure which union to join my suggestion is Unite the Union. General workers union. Very large so good coverage of full time officers no matter where you are based. You'll have a regional full time officer who can support you with these issues. Track the time. Raise it with your manager in a polite and matter of fact way. It's not a confrontation unless the manager makes it one.

A good manager should always respect workers rights, should actively encourage you to be in a union and should model respectful behaviour and a sensible work life balance. If the culture of the company is people working for free, people never taking their annual leave, people being bullied into not taking time back they are owed it is not a good company.

If you are worried about being punished for this and can't easily walk into another job there is the option to track the time over your probation period. This may be 3 or 6 months, you'll know. And then raise it once you're out of probation. If it's typically an hour or two a week it's a full day per month. So it could be 3-6 days TOIL by the time your probation is through which is A LOT of unpaid labour. Which is why most places only allow a month at a time to build up. You'll know how safe your employment is and how likely you are to be let go during probation for raising something reasonable.

I think you've had some harsh responses op. Where I work, any hours worked over our contracted hours can be banked as toil or paid as overtime. All you have to do to get it is submit a timesheet approved by your line manager.
If it's only an hour or so I tend to bank the toil for the inevitable appointments/sports day/school assembly etc, if it's a considerable amount, say I worked a full extra day, I take the pay. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be paid for your time one way or another. And I do work for a flexible employer, on more than one occasion my manager has said don't bother putting it on your timesheet. For that reason anything under an hour a week I don't bother claiming back. It is absolutely give and take but they sound very much like they take a hell of a lot more than they give.

Also to the people who are on here (probably managers) saying she can't do anything because she Is on probation.

Wrong.

You still have rights while on probation. My colleague is on probation, and she just complained and won about something she was not happy about at work.

Employers don't have a free for all to abuse staff because they are on probation

They don't have to give TOIL either.

(Edited unless that's provided for in the contract, I don't think op has clarified what's in her contract re extra hours?)

I think your wrong there.

How can employers put in contracts that they would want employees to work unpaid overtime hours.

Employees are entitled to compensation for work done.

For example in my contract, it says the following about overtime.

"Employees may be required to do up to four hours of overtime per month.

This will be paid at normal hourly rate Monday to Friday, and will be paid at a time and a half rate on Saturday and sunday". I get paid for over time as does everyone I know.

How could an employer put into a contract "as an employee you will be required to work unpaid hours. "

That wouldnt be legal!

They wouldn't be able to put it into any contract as it is not legal in any way.

It really isn’t helpful giving advice which is incorrect and impractical. All very well being the hero if you’re happy being unemployed. Sad fact is, OP needs to play this as a long game if she wants to get past probation and beyond. She should definitely raise a question but I wouldn’t be rocking the boat yet with so little protection.

You cannot claim unfair dismissal until you have been employed for two years in the UK . You can however claim discrimination or harassment for a protected characteristic - and no, flexibility is not one!

In your case if you were not paid overtime and in your contract it says you should be, you could try for breach of contract. But the payout if you won would probably only be the hours you were owed.

She doesn't "have" to get past probation though does she. No one is forced to stay in any job for any length of time.

If she is not happy. She can leave.

In my job, probation is six months.

My colleague who has been there for four and a half months , just got offered another job elsewhere and is leaving.

You don't have to stay in a job until you pass probation. There are plenty of other jobs.

If a job was regularly asking me to work unpaid hours, I absolutely would not stay in that Job. I would apply for other jobs

I would ring at 4.30 if they claimed to be open till 5

4.30 is fine.

It's the people that ring at 4.57 that make people have to stay late.

Though it's not the customers fault. The employer should have something in place to deal with those late callers.

Normally I would say that you’re salaried, so suck it up. However, in most salaried roles management accept that you sometimes/often work over your contracted hours, which means they can’t make you give the time back for hospital appointments or other flexibility. If they expect you to work extra and also make you make the time up for appointments, the flexibility is only going one way. That’s taking the piss. I despise the clock watchers in my team, and consequently the ones that don’t work a minute over their standard hours have to make the time up if they have an appointment. The ones who show me some flexibility get that flexibility back. It’s only fair.

Its legal

https://www.gov.uk/overtime-your-rights#:~:text=Employers%20do%20not%20have%20to,how%20they%27re%20worked%20out.

It sounds like the kind of job where her managers would want to know why they weren't answered.....

They do have something on place, it's called employees staying on after their hours.....

Sounds like that's their plan. 😬

Yeah the employer could say insted:

"You can inform customers at 5pm that the opening hours are now over

And that they will need to call back during opening hours.

I think they are taking the absolute piss. I would keep emailing and keeping a record of the hours owed, if I got no response within a week I would speak to my union or HR.

I work for the NHS, we have an online rostering system and I get my working time changed by someone (as senior or more senior than me) if I stay over my shift even by 10 minutes. Its never a request its my time which they arent having for free.

thank you regarding the phone line time - that now explains the really poor customer service I receive from most organizations. So (telephone) staff not available after 4pm. What do you all do for the hour to 5pm? And I dont suppose you have children and pets running around the day? As per most wfh calls I have to sadly engage with these days.

Clearly they need to close the phone lines an hour before staff finish. Maybe add that as a suggestion?