My employer's attitude to staying on unpaid

[Pistachiovillian]

I have been at this company since the beginning of February so not long, and I am still on probation.

I work as a Case Manager which is a fancy way of saying I sort out paperwork that's been sent by various people to/within our company, but all to do with one specific thing. It's an okay job, okay pay, if a bit boring.

Part of the role (I'd say 10-20% depending on the day) is answering calls from people wanting to access our service.

Anyway several times now, I've been stuck on one of these calls (they're long, requiring a clinical assessment which takes roughly 30 minutes but sometimes up to an hour) and stayed behind. One such call, last week, I took at one minute to the hour I was meant to finish at, and left an hour late.

When I first started, I asked in the work Teams chat what the protocol was for when we had this happen, do we email manager, fill in a form, just leave early/come in later-what?

My manager sent me a private message saying that because they're so flexible generally with appointments and such things, and because It's so rare that anyone has to stay behind for a call, they don't really do anything about this.

As for it being rare, I had that aforementioned hour, and then I've also had to stay behind half an hour again for the same reason yesterday. So I don't feel this is that rare.

It is true that they're flexible with appointments, in the sense that I had a hospital appointment to attend not long after I started, unexpectedly and they were absolutely fine with me leaving in the middle of the day to go to it-however I did have to make up the hours that I had missed!

They have said I can take the hour back. I have not yet spoken to anyone about the half hour as it was only yesterday.

I let my manager know about the hour the day after it happened and said I'd leave earlier/come in later on whatever day was best for her. She said she'd look at when was best for me to be MIA for an hour.

That was Friday-not got back to me yet.

If it was the odd 'one off' I'd not mind. However I don't think It's fair to 'flexibly' work lots of half hours/twenty minutes'/ whatever because we're stuck on calls, for free, continuously? That will soon add up to several hours for free? I've been very passive in my work life and worked lots of hours for free in the past and I am not willing to be a 'people pleaser' any longer at this stage in life.

WWYD here? My idea is to message manager again and say that I am now owed 1 hour thirty minutes and to let me know when I should take it back. But given what she said about them not really doing anything with this type of thing, and me not wanting to annoy anyone as I am fairly new/still on probation, I am not sure.

I may re-post this in chat for traffic but I think here is most appropriate for now.

So you wouldn't want someone on your team that was willing to work for free?

The majority of jobs that I've worked in have never asked me to work extra time without paying me for it. Because they respected workers human rights.

You working overtime unpaid is stupid in my opinion. Why don't you stand up for yourself

Depending on how much you are paid, and if it is minimum wage or very close to it, working extra unpaid hours would result in you actually being paid less than minimum wage, which is illegal. Tell your HR department if that’s the case and they will put a stop to it!

But your job is
1- flexible. The OP isn’t.
2- well paid. I suspect the OP isn’t.

So whatever arrangement that works for you doesn’t apply to the OP.

I would keep a note of extra time worked, if it's more than 20 minutes. I wouldn't immediately raise it again with your manager - give her time to respond to your earlier message. Definitely raise it at the end of your probation, if it hasn't been resolved to your satisfaction. It may genuinely be a rare event and you have just been unlucky.

Honestly this 'penny pinching' attitude wouldn't fly in my work place as we're all salaried and people occasionally do stay on later to hit a deadline etc
I think presenting your manager with a list of days that you did ten minutes more etc would really turn them off you especially when you're so new in the business. If you really don't want to do any extra , I would end the call at home time and arrange to call them back next day to finish gathering the information . .

Are people aware or their employee rights on here?

Employers have no right to keep you working and not pay you for it, unless you have agreed to a time off in lieu procedure. And even at that it should be specified how much you may be required to do, and when you can reclaim your time off on lieu

It looks like op has not agreed to any time off in lieu procedure, and that the company has not given her the hour back when she asked for it

Jesus your post is absolutely ridiculous. Its so ridiculous it's crazy.

No one has to work unpaid hours if they don't want to.

No. I’ve never worked anywhere where your calls are monitored or you have to be at your desk all the time. A minute before I’d have my coat on and switching off my computer. That’s not to say I’ve never done overtime or worked on a weekend but I would get paid extra for those. Is it a call centre type set up (I’ve never worked in one).

So you’d stop a clinical assessment in the middle? Really?

And you’d reschedule it to the next day??? Seeing that’s it’s not the OP’s main job to take those calls and to handle them?

This!

People like @Figgygal say they are in a highly paid job. That's different. Manger or senior leadership working extra, but even that if you're doing it all the time then you're actually under-resourced.

On NMW why work more than paid. If op or anyone else worked just over an hour, every day, (I'm not saying she does but you get my point) employees are then quickly working 1.5 hours, before long that's 7.5 hours, an extra day. Working 6 days, being paid for 5. And that is not to be encouraged.

YANBU because they aren't actually offering flexibility in response. In my job I would happily work late, but you can then just take the hours another time, no-one is tracking and it is taken on trust. In your situation they are taking but not giving.

No, of course you are technically correct . The op can absolute down tools on the button and walk out as she is legally entitled to do. However back in the real world the people who succeed in work are the people who occasionally demonstrate abit of flexibility. It should t be a on going thing though. In my experience the work to rule people are the same people in their original roles for years and years who haven't progressed.
The op is still relatively new in the business and might want to impress a bit . That's all

Also a clinical assessment sounds technical but ultimately it is just a questionnaire. The op could absolutely ring back the next day to complete it and the world won't stop turning f.

So many employers do this and it isn't acceptable and depending what your salary is it could be taking you below minimum wage.

I've worked in places where you had to have switched on and been ready to start at the moment your shift started (necessitating being there 5-10 mins before), then being expected to be available to take a call all the way up to the end and being in trouble if it's noted that you'd been unavailable before the end of shift on too many occasions. If it's 5 mins over the odd time you might let it slide but over 15 mins on multiple occasions really adds up.

The flexibility isn't really flexibility as you have to make the time up, all it really means is that they won't tell you that you can't attend a medical appointment for a resource reason.

All the people saying that OP should be more flexible clearly haven't worked in this environment, are probably paid more and probably see more goodwill from their employer.

did you have to make the time up because you are new? Now that you are accruing these overages, have you asked if those would count against things like medical appointments?

All of this
Some years ago ( pre covid) I was working for an organisation where I often left work one and a half to two hours later. I did this for over a year
I did this hoping that when I had appointments, Parents evening etc that my employers would be flexible
I worked at a job where I actually didn’t need to be at the office
One day I had to attend dd’s parents evening so I asked if I could leave about an hour earlier.
My employers agreed , but said that I owed them an hour as it was their policy.
Unfortunately the policy didn’t go both ways
I didn’t do anymore overtime after this incident.

Sorry but they sound like they're full of shit.

The phone lines shouldn't be open until the time you all leave for the day if they do not pay you to stay. Your contracted hours are your contracted hours.

They say they're flexible but sounds like they only do what they have to - make up the time when they ask and fill out forms? But give you the time back also when works for them?!

It's all about what you can do for them and not how they help you.

You got this job, you can get another! We don't live to work and they need to remember that.

They can't ask or expect you to work for no money.

https://www.tuc.org.uk/guidance/our-employer-asks-us-turn-15-minutes-work-starts-doesnt-pay-us-time-shouldnt-come-under

All the people on here who work for no money, you are idiots.

Its illegal for an employer not to pay you for work

https://www.gov.uk/overtime-your-rights

What's usual, habit, the norm, expected practice by your employer ... may not be lawful. Important to get legal advice. Yes this may impact your probation. Do you want to continue working at a place that may be exploiting free labour?

If the minimum call time is 30 minutes then in theory you shouldn't answer calls in your last half hour. But if every staff member did that, that adds up to an awful lot of time that isn't being covered as should be.

I think I'd let it go as you're on probation but would add 5 minutes onto my lunch break here and then to make it up.

Would you personally stay an hour late at work to answer a call?

It's unpaid.

Where do clients/customers stand if help lines are advertised open till 5pm but staff are told to stop taking calls at 4.30pm. That's just as bad as staff working unpaid hours.

I don't know about you, but I would never ring a place to ask advice at 4.55 pm.