My employer's attitude to staying on unpaid

[Pistachiovillian]

I have been at this company since the beginning of February so not long, and I am still on probation.

I work as a Case Manager which is a fancy way of saying I sort out paperwork that's been sent by various people to/within our company, but all to do with one specific thing. It's an okay job, okay pay, if a bit boring.

Part of the role (I'd say 10-20% depending on the day) is answering calls from people wanting to access our service.

Anyway several times now, I've been stuck on one of these calls (they're long, requiring a clinical assessment which takes roughly 30 minutes but sometimes up to an hour) and stayed behind. One such call, last week, I took at one minute to the hour I was meant to finish at, and left an hour late.

When I first started, I asked in the work Teams chat what the protocol was for when we had this happen, do we email manager, fill in a form, just leave early/come in later-what?

My manager sent me a private message saying that because they're so flexible generally with appointments and such things, and because It's so rare that anyone has to stay behind for a call, they don't really do anything about this.

As for it being rare, I had that aforementioned hour, and then I've also had to stay behind half an hour again for the same reason yesterday. So I don't feel this is that rare.

It is true that they're flexible with appointments, in the sense that I had a hospital appointment to attend not long after I started, unexpectedly and they were absolutely fine with me leaving in the middle of the day to go to it-however I did have to make up the hours that I had missed!

They have said I can take the hour back. I have not yet spoken to anyone about the half hour as it was only yesterday.

I let my manager know about the hour the day after it happened and said I'd leave earlier/come in later on whatever day was best for her. She said she'd look at when was best for me to be MIA for an hour.

That was Friday-not got back to me yet.

If it was the odd 'one off' I'd not mind. However I don't think It's fair to 'flexibly' work lots of half hours/twenty minutes'/ whatever because we're stuck on calls, for free, continuously? That will soon add up to several hours for free? I've been very passive in my work life and worked lots of hours for free in the past and I am not willing to be a 'people pleaser' any longer at this stage in life.

WWYD here? My idea is to message manager again and say that I am now owed 1 hour thirty minutes and to let me know when I should take it back. But given what she said about them not really doing anything with this type of thing, and me not wanting to annoy anyone as I am fairly new/still on probation, I am not sure.

I may re-post this in chat for traffic but I think here is most appropriate for now.

Goodness, I see it differently compared to posters calling her a 'clock watcher'.

So if I understand well, you wouldn’t get paid overtime right?
They are not flexible due to the type of organisation/job hence the whole procedure you need time off.
They expect lines to be manned during certain times.
And they expect you to do all your hours (so to make up for appointments) but wouldn’t let you have a break to make up for your overtime.

id keep a log of how often you are working overtime. For yourself.
Id try to see if the working over time like is common in that company. This will tell you about the company culture (if everyone does that you’ll struggle to get them to be more flexible) or if it’s your job and they haven’t realised what’s going on.

But I agree that being on probation, you can’t start clock watching and making demands no one else is making in the company.
It also feels like they like to say and think they are flexible but actually aren’t flexible at all tbh. Basically wanting their cake and eat it.

Ask HR if you can bank that time . We allow this and eventually leads to a day or half a day

Also , never takes calls a few minutes before the end of your shift . That’s common sense

OP had already explained that neither of those options are possible.

I would keep track of the extra hours but not mention to anyone else until I'd passed probation - then hit them with "by the way, I've accrued 4 hours TOIL - can I take that as an afternoon off next Friday?"

If a call takes a hour, then you need to stop answering calls 55 mins before end of shift. Just fill that last nearly hour with other paperwork not involving taking the calls?
If not then do just say I'm taking this hour back on X day (give a few days notice) and then either leave early or take longer lunch. They've said you can get it back, but you are entitled to leave on time as well, unless the overtime is immediately added to your pay.
Just say someone had childcare they needed to get back for. You can't just turn up and hour late to collect kids?

I think if it was a one off I would let it go but like you say if it becomes a regular thing then it does all add up. You do have to be assertive in these instances otherwise these lost hours just become expected. I needed to leave a bit early the other day and my boss said about making up the time up so I reminded them of the time I had accrued coming in early etc. Has to be give and take.

I'm shocked at the people saying the OP is over reacting.

I bet the people who say the OP is overreacting doesn't have it happen to them.

I work in a similar job OP. The boss/ company won't care because it is not inconveniencing them.

It is inconveniencing you.

I would refuse to do it.

I also have to answer calls, and if a call comes in at 16.59 and lasts for an hour, I would simply be expected to work an hour late for free. Its crazy.

I've found a way out of doing it for now. My colleague told me how to do this.

We have a way to block calls, for follow up work. We are only meant to use this option sparingly. We are only meant to use it for a couple of minutes at a time

My colleague told me to drag the last call out to 16.58 then use the block calls/follow up button for the last two minutes to five o clock
So we don't have to stay late.

I'm not working over my paid time

I wouldn’t have taken a call one minute to the hour you finish (I assume you mean if you leave at 4 you took it at 3.59?). Why do that if you know the call will take a minimum thirty minutes to an hour.

Ivd just read the previous post so I see it’s not always possible, I’ve never worked in that kind of environment so my advice is probably redundant.

I have read this thread with interest!

I keep very strong boundaries about my work hours. I only work during my paid working hours but it looks like i'm in the minority which i am genuinely surprised about. I think the only thing that would make me stay late unpaid would be a safeguarding issue but I would certainly be taking it back.

Some employers might not be used to it, if none of their workers have ever complained as it's "expected" but I think its a really important boundary to have. It's not about being flexible or inflexible, it sounds like you are willing to be flexible by staying late when needed - it's about paying your employees for the time they are expecting them to work and I don't think I would want to work somewhere that didn't want to pass my probation because of this.

I honestly think that as long as you are respectful and polite to your boss, there is nothing wrong with expecting to be paid or to take the time back for the time you stayed over. I think I would try to be a little more proactive and suggest dates and times "As you know i'm owed 1 hour, may i suggest <2 weeks notice> as a good time to take it back?"

Have you never worked in a job like that?

I have.

You have to log in for every minute.

And you are supposed to stay logged in to accepting calls until 5 o clock.

Well this is part of the issue. It’s just expected for people to work for free. It’s a strange principle when you think about it and we have been conditioned to think we are greedy if we bring it up as an issue. Such is the strength of the capitalist system!

Give yourself a fifteen minutes packing up time. If they want the phones answered at 4.59 then they need to pay people till 5.30. no way would I be answering at 4.59.

Sounds like you're not compatible with this organisation tbh

No wonder there's a productivity challenge in this country if people work to rule and clock watch to this extent

You expect people to work for free. That's Bullshit.

Let me ask you this.

Do you stay at work and work an hour later, unpaid?

People have zero empathy for others till it happens to them

That fact is that companies bank on the goodwill of employees. And I mean that literally, every minute of work outside of your contract they are not paying you is money in their pockets.

If you aren't happy to do that then work your contracted hours and no more. Don't discuss this with your management team unless they ask, you are not obligated to do so. Their expectation that you will work longer is unreasonable and they are taking advantage. Most people go along with it because they worry about the opinions of their management team and career prospects, but if you do a great job during your contracted hours then they will have nothing to complain about.
After your probation period ends, if they notice anything, politely let them know that you aren't able to work after your contracted finish time due to other commitments and appointments outside of work and do not specify what these are. If they are rude enough to press hint at caring responsibilities. Which is true, you are caring for yourself.
If on a call at your appointed finish time you either pass the call to an available colleague or inform the caller that unfortunately the office is closing and you'll need to call them back the following day.
If management notice, ask of they prefer you to not answer the phone for a period of time prior to your finish time instead.
You don't have any legal right to time off for medical appointments. At my workplace I normally book holiday time (we can book in half hour time periods) to save any stress, but if I didn't do this I would be expected to make up the time.
If their attitude becomes problematic find a different business to work for that behaves better.

more fool them

It was called work to rule when I started out, I understand the new term for it is quiet quitting. I'm at management grade and I have no problem with people who do this, I think it's very sensible.
Work is a contract. I doubt there's very many other contractual situations where one contacted party is expected to give more for free without it being specified in the contract.

People who say the OP is over reacting about staying an hour late.

If you were asked to stay an hour late at work, would you be happy?

Lol

No wonder it’s so hard to find suitable applicants when companies treat them like shit.

Taking calls isn’t even the main part of the OP’s job! I suspect this has historically been added to give the company some flexibility/backup fir their convenience but isn’t wha5 the job is actually about.

Also bring happy to work overtime is one thing when you are at management level/well laid.
A totally different thing when you are MW.

@Pistachiovillian is there a HR department?
Id have a look at your contract, see what it says re overtime and ask for clarification from HR if it isn’t stated in your contract.

Yeah I work extra to get my job done quite regularly as I'm a well paid professional and its required at times. I find flexibility is reciprocated when I need it.
It's expected in many industries and job types and you can be flexible without martyring yourself

You've decided to that though.

The OP doesn't want to do it.

And i believe it is actually breaking the law to expect employees to work without paying them for it