My employer's attitude to staying on unpaid

[Pistachiovillian]

I have been at this company since the beginning of February so not long, and I am still on probation.

I work as a Case Manager which is a fancy way of saying I sort out paperwork that's been sent by various people to/within our company, but all to do with one specific thing. It's an okay job, okay pay, if a bit boring.

Part of the role (I'd say 10-20% depending on the day) is answering calls from people wanting to access our service.

Anyway several times now, I've been stuck on one of these calls (they're long, requiring a clinical assessment which takes roughly 30 minutes but sometimes up to an hour) and stayed behind. One such call, last week, I took at one minute to the hour I was meant to finish at, and left an hour late.

When I first started, I asked in the work Teams chat what the protocol was for when we had this happen, do we email manager, fill in a form, just leave early/come in later-what?

My manager sent me a private message saying that because they're so flexible generally with appointments and such things, and because It's so rare that anyone has to stay behind for a call, they don't really do anything about this.

As for it being rare, I had that aforementioned hour, and then I've also had to stay behind half an hour again for the same reason yesterday. So I don't feel this is that rare.

It is true that they're flexible with appointments, in the sense that I had a hospital appointment to attend not long after I started, unexpectedly and they were absolutely fine with me leaving in the middle of the day to go to it-however I did have to make up the hours that I had missed!

They have said I can take the hour back. I have not yet spoken to anyone about the half hour as it was only yesterday.

I let my manager know about the hour the day after it happened and said I'd leave earlier/come in later on whatever day was best for her. She said she'd look at when was best for me to be MIA for an hour.

That was Friday-not got back to me yet.

If it was the odd 'one off' I'd not mind. However I don't think It's fair to 'flexibly' work lots of half hours/twenty minutes'/ whatever because we're stuck on calls, for free, continuously? That will soon add up to several hours for free? I've been very passive in my work life and worked lots of hours for free in the past and I am not willing to be a 'people pleaser' any longer at this stage in life.

WWYD here? My idea is to message manager again and say that I am now owed 1 hour thirty minutes and to let me know when I should take it back. But given what she said about them not really doing anything with this type of thing, and me not wanting to annoy anyone as I am fairly new/still on probation, I am not sure.

I may re-post this in chat for traffic but I think here is most appropriate for now.

The problem here is that you feel you are at a disadvantage as you are still on probation and therefore wary of annoying management. However, if you do not set up a fair system for claiming back your time now then going forward, once you are permanent, it will be even more awkward to raise the subject of time owed, so I think you should be transparent and email your manager each time you acrue more time owed, but make it clear you are happy to take it at a time that's convenient to both parties.

I think you should aim to take back any time owed within a calender month so that the amount of time does not become onerous for your work to honour, and assertively email your manager with the time you propose to take it, and ask if that time is agreeable with them.

As long as you're not complaining about being held up at work and showing you are a team player overall, they cannot find fault with you, and you should not fail probation for taking what is reasonably yours - in the same way as as they took what was owed to them when you had to make time after your hospital appointment.

I think making a note of times and asking for TOIL at an appropriate time is okay. It shows you are not going to be taken for granted. As Wilberforce proved, slavery is not okay. Capitalism has meant that the gap between those at the top and those at the bottom is so massive that we are meant to be ‘grateful’ for being in any role under any conditions. It’s not okay. Flexibility has to be appreciated both ways. I totally think you should do the extra time if you can as in probation and you want to be dedicated but you might NOT be able to sometimes and they should also accept that. We all have other commitments.

If you go over by 15 minutes here and there then it’s not the end of the world… if you don’t have an urgent appointment to get to… but if you do, then speak up!

Thank you both. As an aside I've been asked to work this Sunday now in return for a day off during the week....

I am definitely conscientious, I learn quickly and work to the best of my ability, I've helped colleagues out etc and I in no way begrudge work a few minutes here and there. Just think when it is regularly 30 minutes and sometimes up to an hour, they're getting into 'We expect you to work for nothing regularly' territory which I am not okay with!

Hmm I’m wondering @Pistachiovillian
If you are the only one that is working that shift before overseas company takes over, is it possible that few other people have similar issues to you because they can transfer that call to someone else?

Same with the bank hol shifts.
Im very surprised if everyone is keeping their bank hol weekends free on the odd chance they’ll need to work.
Can you talk to the people who take calls and see what’s their organisation? Do they have a rota for eg?

Im wondering if some of the issues aren’t also linked to the fact you are wfh so don’t know yet what is the normal organisation for the company.

Will you get paid Sunday rate

DH is salaried and is often required to work additional time out of hours or at the weekend for specific projects. There's usually no additional pay, unless it's negotiated in advance (usually for several full weekends in a row). I am hourly paid and can agree additional work at single rate overtime.

The ACAS website states -

"Pay for working extra hours
Some employers choose to pay employees and workers for working more hours than the employment contract says. This is usually called overtime pay.

Although some employers offer overtime pay, there's no automatic legal right to it.

Employers must state in the written statement of employment particulars:

what hours are classed as overtime
what the rate of pay is for overtime"
So, basically, if your contract states you may need to work additional hours in order to fulfill your contract, there's no legal requirement for them to be paid or given as TOIL.

"If an employee or worker is part time
A part-time employee or worker is someone who works fewer hours than a full-time employee or worker in the same organisation. There are no set numbers of hours that count as full-time or part-time work.
By law, employers must not treat part-time workers and employees less favourably than full-time ones.
Part-time staff are not entitled to get overtime pay until they have worked more than the normal hours of full-time staff. Your organisation might have a different policy about overtime, so you should check the contract."
That means that you wouldn't be entitled to overtime pay until you've done another 6, 7 or 10 (or whatever the f/t equivalent is) hours as you're part-time.

Depending on how much over minimum wage your salary is, this sounds like over the month, with them not keeping track because it's expected, you could very much be receiving lower than minimum wage

@LakeSnake I think someone is on a late shift every day, but not everyone HAS a late shift incorporated into their shift pattern, so I am not sure. You could be right.

Yes, I would be surprised at that too! What's the point? None of us can have the whole weekend/go away anywhere/have a night out on the Sunday because we've ALL got to keep them free just in case we're asked to work (which would usually be only a few days in advance)?!

They seem quite disorganised. I asked a manager about my probation review which should have taken place at the beginning of this month and she said 'Oh yes well you've definitely passed!'
Is that normal? Everywhere else I've worked (and I've had more than a few jobs) I have been told!

I am going to see if I can view the rota-I think it is somewhere but apparently out of date..

We all work from home though.

@TraitorsGateno, just an extra day off in the week.

Thank you for that respone @usernamealreadytaken

I will have to work out how much over MW my salary is.

Get that "you've definitely passed" in an email. Just send an email to her saying something like further to our conversation earlier about my probation review I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for kindly reassuring me I have passed. Are you able to document this for HR and CC me in please?

They sound chaotic so get everything in writing. With regards to bank holidays I think you'll be best planning ahead with your team getting the agreements together about who will work the next one and sending it on to a manager. It's not your job but clearly the management are not doing it or going to do it and this way the rest of you can know what you're doing and when to enable you to make plans.

They seem quite disorganised. I asked a manager about my probation review which should have taken place at the beginning of this month and she said 'Oh yes well you've definitely passed!'
Is that normal? Everywhere else I've worked (and I've had more than a few jobs) I have been told!

probation doesn't have the same legal status as gaining one's 2 year employment rights, however it is worth getting that confirmation in writing. It's something you can bet they would formalise if they didn't want you to stay, so you shouldn't allow them to be so casual when you've earned it.

Probation is a company-set marker in time for trialling employment to ensure the employee's face fits, is able to do the job competently, and on the employee's side that they like the job. It also tend to unlock any non-statutory benefits they want to give, such as health-care, holidays beyond statutory days.

worth checking your contract to see what you get once you pass probation and make sure they know that you know and don't conveniently "forget" as you could be missing out on things that other staff members benefit from.

@Salmakia that's a good idea regarding emailing said manager (she's not my line manager) and also the bank hol thing. I wonder if it will look very strange to them that I send such an email, if their usual culture is just so slap-dash.

I have already received the benefits detailed in my contract (got £300 back from a £1900 dental bill, yay! But better than nothing, recently) so I suppose I'm okay on that front but I would still like something to state that I have passed. I only asked because the manager had called me about something else-it was a 'Seeing as I have got you can you please answer me this' type thing. Goes to look at contract again...

It may look strange but they'll all probably feel relieved someone organised and efficient has joined the team. A good strange and hopefully it will then become the new normal.

Sometimes an organisation needs fresh eyes to see that what they've been doing isn't really very good!

I emailed them and asked for something in writing. I've also finally sorted out when I am taking that hour back!