My employer's attitude to staying on unpaid

[Pistachiovillian]

I have been at this company since the beginning of February so not long, and I am still on probation.

I work as a Case Manager which is a fancy way of saying I sort out paperwork that's been sent by various people to/within our company, but all to do with one specific thing. It's an okay job, okay pay, if a bit boring.

Part of the role (I'd say 10-20% depending on the day) is answering calls from people wanting to access our service.

Anyway several times now, I've been stuck on one of these calls (they're long, requiring a clinical assessment which takes roughly 30 minutes but sometimes up to an hour) and stayed behind. One such call, last week, I took at one minute to the hour I was meant to finish at, and left an hour late.

When I first started, I asked in the work Teams chat what the protocol was for when we had this happen, do we email manager, fill in a form, just leave early/come in later-what?

My manager sent me a private message saying that because they're so flexible generally with appointments and such things, and because It's so rare that anyone has to stay behind for a call, they don't really do anything about this.

As for it being rare, I had that aforementioned hour, and then I've also had to stay behind half an hour again for the same reason yesterday. So I don't feel this is that rare.

It is true that they're flexible with appointments, in the sense that I had a hospital appointment to attend not long after I started, unexpectedly and they were absolutely fine with me leaving in the middle of the day to go to it-however I did have to make up the hours that I had missed!

They have said I can take the hour back. I have not yet spoken to anyone about the half hour as it was only yesterday.

I let my manager know about the hour the day after it happened and said I'd leave earlier/come in later on whatever day was best for her. She said she'd look at when was best for me to be MIA for an hour.

That was Friday-not got back to me yet.

If it was the odd 'one off' I'd not mind. However I don't think It's fair to 'flexibly' work lots of half hours/twenty minutes'/ whatever because we're stuck on calls, for free, continuously? That will soon add up to several hours for free? I've been very passive in my work life and worked lots of hours for free in the past and I am not willing to be a 'people pleaser' any longer at this stage in life.

WWYD here? My idea is to message manager again and say that I am now owed 1 hour thirty minutes and to let me know when I should take it back. But given what she said about them not really doing anything with this type of thing, and me not wanting to annoy anyone as I am fairly new/still on probation, I am not sure.

I may re-post this in chat for traffic but I think here is most appropriate for now.

OP you are right to keep a note of your hours worked and take back any time you are owed.
If it becomes an issue then speak to HR. You can't offer someone contracted hours then ask them to be flexible and give up their personal time for free by saying they are flexible with appointments but you need to give notice, that's wild 😂

Doesn't matter how many times, it's not acceptable.

And if they bring it up at probation then highlight there's nothing in your contract about unpaid overtime

Look up LoeWhaley on Instagram, she's Canadian but the scenario are the same x

Why are you taking calls so close to the end of your shift. Go to the loo for the last few minutes if you have to or see if you can use the 1 hour 30 minutes to check out a few minutes early.

This sounds like the Company my DH works for. Life/health insurance company, with a cute dog as its mascot. Completely inflexible and treat the staff worse than badly behaved school children... tell them not to log off at there finish time because people are still in the call queue. We also can't make plans as we don't know his shifts, they change weekly. If it is this company...get out now.

I wouldn’t make much of it at the moment, but I would bring it up once the probation is passed!

Seriously, working an extra 1.5 hours since February is not a big deal.

Some people do that every day!

me being me , as long as my efforts are recognised, then im willing to do extra when needed

I think the amount of people who are bragging they ‘do that sort of thing everyday’ need to have a look in the mirror.
we don’t survive to work and not be paid for it.
ofc yes the random 5 minutes every so often is different to a whole hour. If you have children, well, I wouldn’t be able to just tell my childcare they need to wait a whole hour with no notice, unless it was a complete emergency ofc. And then another half an hour another day. I remember hating this sort of thing when I worked in a call centre as a teenager.

and your work isn’t flexible. They are saying they are but they aren’t. They have said yes you can go do medical appts (which most works do!) and have said they want all minutes back. As should you. Anything longer than 15/20 mins I’d start recording and especially ask for TOIL for anything over 30!!

anyone who says a manager would judge an employee for this also needs a head scratch, I’ve been a manager for a long time and wouldn’t batter an eyelid if someone came to me saying ‘can I claim my hour back’. An hour is a long time. Check your contract op

At last a sensible response. Why should ordinary employees work free hours regularly without it being paid back by time off in lieu? This so called flexibility doesn't really exist if OP has to make up time taken for appointments on top of giving them extra time. They are taking the pee a bit and relying on people not standing up for their rights .

Agreed!
Also while a salaried employee OP isn't measured by her output, but presence. In which case, while I understand that they can't be flexible, they also need to pay her for any extra hours done!

Employers take the piss these days. It seems kind of expected.
Dont answer calls a minute before you leave. Check emails or do something else instead.
I dont get paid enough to work extra free hours. Different if you earn a fantastic salary. I frequently say no to my boss. Staffing is their issue not mine. If there isn't enough hours in the day for current staff to complete jobs then get more staff

You are definitely making this in to something bigger that it needs to be.
This isn’t a clock-in/clock-out job. The expectation is that you work longer hours sometimes and in return you get a lot of flexibility to make appointments/WFH etc. that people in a retail job for example don’t get. If you’re looking for a job that pays for literally every hour you work, then this doesn’t sound like the job for you.

Times have no doubt changed, but when I worked on a switchboard for M&S many years ago we just pulled the phone plug out behind the desk 15 minutes before going home, pushed it back in as we left and scarpered.

Yes, and some people's salary is commensurate with that. I suspect that the OP's isn't.

I'd stop answering the phone an hour before leaving time. Or answer the phone but book in an appointment to phone them back the next day for the assessment. If neither of those is possible, I'd be going for a 2hr lunch tomorrow and 1 1/2 hr the day after, if being absent at the beginning and end of each day is an issue.

I detest jobs wher you're paid by the hour (usually not that brilliantly) and expected to work for free on a regular basis.

They're not actually flexible with appointments if they're expecting you to make the time up! Because appointments can be rearranged and you're allowed to take annual leave or to call in sick if it's an emergency, so they realistically can't stop you taking time off for these appointments anyway.

@Summerlovin24 it's not recent. I've experienced this multiple times in the 30yrs I've been working.

@yaynottoolongtogonow try 1.5hr in the last week and a half, and multiple other times since February. That's what OP says and it's not "rare".

I used to work in a public facing role and the phone lines ‘closed’ 30 mins before end of the day for that reason and where we had ‘staggered’ starts/finishes/lunch that individual didn’t answer a call 30 mins prior to their lunch/end time.
How do other team members manage it (could they be choosing not to answer the phone and leaving it to you so they don’t over run? If they have kids and childcare pick up times they couldn’t just be late). Might be worth you collectively approaching processes as a team eg can phone times be switched off before end of day to ensure this doesn’t happen.

You need to see what your contract says because for a salaried wage working an extra 1.5 hours in like 3 months is not a lot. If you were paid hourly then you either get paid or don’t do the extra but with salary there is usually expectation of some additional hours when needed

All this nonsense about working extra for a salaried position is ridiculous. If you are salaried it is a set amount for your contracted hours. The OP is not obliged to work an hour or half an hour past her finish time for free. OP I would keep a log and i would wait until I had passed probation. I would then request the time off for the extra work you have done.

This sounds like a right mess.
I don't want long lunches I want to work my hours and go home. Or start late or ideally leave early.

Either avoid answering the phone within half an hour or your end time or make appointment to ring them the next day.

Or ask someone how this properly gets sorted. Giving you half hearted permission to take time back but having restrictions sounds pants.

If you start saying you’re “owed” time, you won’t pass your probation. If it’s not in the culture, they won’t want a newcomer stirring the pot and setting precedents.

I’m not saying this is right at all, and hopefully in time it will change. But only stick your head above the parapet if you’re comfortable about finding something else at short notice.

At my work we track all the over shift time in a month and the total amount is taken back in one block as an early finish the next month. It works well. I would suggest you track all the occasions it happens, and all the time it adds up to. Schedule a meeting with your manager at the very begining of next month and provide your documentation that it is not rare, that it adds up to a significant amount of unpaid labour and that it's unfair to expect this is just done. Bordering on exploitative so you would appreciate if she facilitated you taking this time back at a mutually agreed date this month and to have the same procedure for every month. Time owed in lieu (TOIL) is not an unfamiliar concept to anyone and all reasonable employers should facilitate it. If they get difficult you need to bring in your union to this. Don't know your wage but even if this doesn't apply to you due to your level of earning sot could apply to workers in lower pay - considerable unpaid overtime can cause employers to break minimum wage legislation.

"They're taking the P, OP. I’d absolutely be pushing back on this and they can only respect you for it."

Trouble is @Overpayment , the won't respect her for it.

They'll just see her as a pain in the arse, which is how most organisations see employees who push back on anything.

She can't avoid answering the phone. The OP has said sometimes she's the only one on, as she works until 20.00hrs.

Sometimes she'll be the only one covering a lunch break too, so again, it's not possible.

If you know the calls take between half an hour and an hour you shouldn't taken a call at one minute before your leave time unless you can go through security with caller then transfer them to another case worker.

Could you pass calls that come in close to your finishing time to a colleague?