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Original poster

Make up at work

274 replies

ZebraGiraffe12 · 25/03/2024 13:47

I posted previously regarding achieving a promotion and I am super happy about this and I love the promotion. However, I have had a meeting today about a complaint from one of our senior managers. Before coming back from maternity leave I liked to be very glamourous, high heels, make up, etc. However, since coming back from maternity I prefer a nice flat shoe or a small heel and minimal or no make up. If I am at home doing video conferences I will rarely wear make up, when travelling I will wear a bit (lots of photos taken).

Last week I was taking part in a training conference for managers across the world. It was a 5 day conference and on 4 of the days I wore no make up, on the second day I was presenting at the conference and decided to wear some make up. I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional. I feel absolutely awful and cried all through my lunch.

Someone please reassure me that I am not in the wrong and the senior manager at my work is. I haven't seen him since I was 4 months pregnant so I know my look has changed a lot.

Thank you

OP posts:
DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 28/03/2024 10:05

OP

It all depends on what is expected by a "sales" outfit

I would not have said that and many others would not have but it is what it is.

You know what the law is but I'm talking re real world and not dreamland

IMO, OP, you did nothing wrong but you did do wrong in the eyes of your senior manger - only you can decide next action

Isometimeswonder · 28/03/2024 10:13

This happened to me about 25 years ago.
I'd hoped we'd moved on.

Bamboobzled · 28/03/2024 10:14

Get this all in writing as proof. This is discrimination! Is the same expected of your male colleagues?! Your face does not sell anything. The only company I know that gets away with stuff like this are airlines who require their staff to be dolled up but thats made clear before they sign up! I'd email and make the point that unless your male colleagues are wearing makeup, then you won't be forced to. Then if they come back with more crap, take it further.

VesperLind · 28/03/2024 10:21

I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional.

Tethered goat. I’m interested to know what field you work in OP - between his attitude and the attitude of the female manager I would be assuming that there is an unwritten understanding that the women have an added value to the business…

IamOliveOil · 28/03/2024 10:23

Children or not whether you wear make up or not should not be linked to your performance! I would be submitting a grievance, absolutely disgusting behaviour.

FamBae · 28/03/2024 10:25

I thought all this crap had died out in the nineties and I think that would have been my response.

Flatulence · 28/03/2024 10:32

Unless the men are expected to also wear heels and make up then this is potentially sex discrimination. I would take this to your HR department.
It IS absolutely fine for your employers to expect you to be well turned out (e.g. ironed clothes, well styled hair, neat nails, smart shoes, generally 'professional' looking) but an employer cannot expect you to have gender-specific standards such as high heels or lipstick.
If you're sure you're very well turned out but you just don't wear heels and make up now then you potentially could bring a case against your employer. But if you're going to work looking scruffy when there are clear expectations that you look almost immaculate then that isn't acceptable either.

seasaltbarbie · 28/03/2024 10:36

You obviously have to be presentable, it’s easy for woman to take offence to a man saying that but I don’t think it’s that deep. You’ve to look nice for work and you need to look like you’ve mad an effort. Men don’t wear make up but they will be expected to shave, shower and have their hair presentable every day, it’s the same thing in my opinion. People maybe think you look like you’ve not made an effort which is clearly a requirement for your job so I would probably just try harder.

Vive42 · 28/03/2024 10:41

The patriarchy lives on…

And it’s 2024. When is this sort of 💩 going to end.

A woman has value beyond just the way she looks.

Or doesn’t she?

I sometimes think if we ALL stopped wearing make up then the bar would go, we’d never have to compete again.

Wed have the same freedoms as men. There’d be a feeling that wearing make up was weird.

I hope one day we evolve to this stage. I avoid all make up these days. Trying to create a movement but those trashy Kardashians don’t help 😆

Why do we need to put paint on our faces to “feel good”?

Why do we need to equate our self worth with our perceived beauty?

It’s so fucked up.

MarvellousMonsters · 28/03/2024 10:41

Only if they expect men to wear make up too. Otherwise tell them to fuck off

GingerIsBest · 28/03/2024 10:42

This is pretty shocking. I think, assuming it's a public facing role and/or for a big corporate, that they may well have some written or unwritten rule about neat/appropriate appearance. I worked tangentially with a woman who didn't wear make up - no one cared about that. But she also often looked scruffy and her hair was always messy and just looked a bit unkempt. It wasn't fair, but it definitely impacted her negatively.

Having said that, I've met a few men who were scruffy and unkempt and it affected them equally badly in the corporate world I operated in - things like constantly stained ties, uneven stubble etc.

But to have an issue because you choose to look neat and presentable without heels and make up is outrageous.

Pinkelephant66 · 28/03/2024 10:44

This is shocking!!

sophiasnail · 28/03/2024 10:47

I do hope you asked him to summarise the meeting in an e-mail!

Yogatoga1 · 28/03/2024 10:49

Take the parent bit out of the equation.

you’re doing yourself no favours suggesting the reason you aren’t presenting in a particular way is due to your kids. You aren’t asking for accommodation due to being a parent, you simply don’t want to wear heels and make up!

I have never worn heels or make up to work. Nothing to do with having kids, I just don’t wear them, ever!

Motnight · 28/03/2024 10:57

seasaltbarbie · 28/03/2024 10:36

You obviously have to be presentable, it’s easy for woman to take offence to a man saying that but I don’t think it’s that deep. You’ve to look nice for work and you need to look like you’ve mad an effort. Men don’t wear make up but they will be expected to shave, shower and have their hair presentable every day, it’s the same thing in my opinion. People maybe think you look like you’ve not made an effort which is clearly a requirement for your job so I would probably just try harder.

What does wearing makeup and high heels have to do with "being presentable"? What does "look nice" even mean?

HeavyRainSoon · 28/03/2024 10:58

FFS this is 2024... even Virgin Airlines female flight attendants are no longer mandated to wear makeup to work, and trousers are automatic uniform option. I would be upset aswell OP :(

Ellie56 · 28/03/2024 11:02

INeedToClingToSomething · 25/03/2024 16:01

This. I would email a summary of the meeting to the manager and HR and then include this at the bottom. .

Show quote history

Great advice. What an absolute knob your manager is.

GreatGateauxsby · 28/03/2024 11:17

fluffycloudalert · 25/03/2024 14:06

Send him an email: "Dear sexist prick senior manager, further to your conversation with me earlier today, please would you put your expectations regarding my appearance in writing to me. Many thanks".

💯 do this.

i had a similar issue and this worked a treat

Coachvikki · 28/03/2024 11:19

ZebraGiraffe12 · 26/03/2024 09:02

Thank you for everyone's response. I have met with one of the senior managers on our team today, she was slightly understanding. She did say she doesn't have children so doesn't understand the pressures herself. She did however inform me I do not need to wear make up or high heels as long as I present myself well. Which I did for our conference. Thank you for your advice I would never have arranged the meeting without all of your kind words.

I'm glad that she was slightly understanding, but having children has nothing to do with this and she shouldn't have said that. I don't have children and sometimes I don't wear make up to work, it is about 70:30 at the moment and I never wear heels. Don't let her make you feel like this is a you thing. It is not.

Temporaryanonymity · 28/03/2024 11:24

Don’t go to HR. They aren’t the police.

Escalate this to your manager’s manager, or the person with overall responsibility for your department or function. Copy in HR. They will advise the recipient, who has the authority to do something about it. HR are very rarely that person.

If nothing happens, speak to ACAS.

Flatbellyfella · 28/03/2024 11:25

Your senior manager is asshole of the first degree.

GinnyWizz · 28/03/2024 11:25

Other people have said this but I also wanted to add that this should have nothing to do with being a parent. That's yet another possible layer of discrimination, you know this, right?

pam290358 · 28/03/2024 11:25

seasaltbarbie · 28/03/2024 10:36

You obviously have to be presentable, it’s easy for woman to take offence to a man saying that but I don’t think it’s that deep. You’ve to look nice for work and you need to look like you’ve mad an effort. Men don’t wear make up but they will be expected to shave, shower and have their hair presentable every day, it’s the same thing in my opinion. People maybe think you look like you’ve not made an effort which is clearly a requirement for your job so I would probably just try harder.

I don’t think it’s a question of taking offence though. The law says that the dress code for men and women should be similar and employers are not entitled to insist on make up, manicures or high heeled shoes - essentially if men aren’t expected to do these things, then women shouldn’t be either.

What the manager did by taking the OP aside to comment on her appearance, was actually harassment. He told her that her face was part of ‘selling the company’. The Equality Act is clear on these things and I think he’s sailed pretty close to breaching it. OP made a conscious decision not to wear high heels and make up any more, but there’s nothing to say that she’s not just as presentably turned out as her male colleagues, and that being the case I don’t think they’ve any cause for complaint.

concernedchild · 28/03/2024 11:29

Personally I wouldn't dream of going to work without makeup on. I don't do a full face of glam, but foundation/concealer, brows, eyeshadow, mascara and a lip gloss or nude lipstick.

It sucks but I think makeup makes you look more professional

Rosscameasdoody · 28/03/2024 11:30

GinnyWizz · 28/03/2024 11:25

Other people have said this but I also wanted to add that this should have nothing to do with being a parent. That's yet another possible layer of discrimination, you know this, right?

I agree. OP has made a conscious decision to make her life a bit easier now that she’s a mum, and this manager clearly seems to have viewed it as a drop in standards. If she’s presentably turned out they don’t have any cause for complaint and I think maybe the manager who spoke to her needs to acquaint himself with the Equality Act before he drops himself and his company right in it !!

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