Make up at work

[ZebraGiraffe12]

I posted previously regarding achieving a promotion and I am super happy about this and I love the promotion. However, I have had a meeting today about a complaint from one of our senior managers. Before coming back from maternity leave I liked to be very glamourous, high heels, make up, etc. However, since coming back from maternity I prefer a nice flat shoe or a small heel and minimal or no make up. If I am at home doing video conferences I will rarely wear make up, when travelling I will wear a bit (lots of photos taken).

Last week I was taking part in a training conference for managers across the world. It was a 5 day conference and on 4 of the days I wore no make up, on the second day I was presenting at the conference and decided to wear some make up. I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional. I feel absolutely awful and cried all through my lunch.

Someone please reassure me that I am not in the wrong and the senior manager at my work is. I haven't seen him since I was 4 months pregnant so I know my look has changed a lot.

Thank you

If it's not the beauty industry then I'd be taken aback. I always wear a bit of makeup but like you, I wouldn't like to be told to. Like it's equivalent to having no body odour. Just neutral.

When I felt rough one morning a few weeks ago I didn't wear any make up to work and all morning I was told how sick I looked. I milked it and went home.

But just tinted moisturiser, blusher, powder and mascara, it's like that's just to get my face to the starting line now. My actual face is hiding in the wings!

This could have been a scene from Mad Men. Which was set 50/60-odd years ago. Fucking depressing that this shit is still a thing for women in the workplace in 20-fucking-24.

I wouldve asked why he isnt wearing make up

This is why we need women in senior positions

HR should be your first port of call. It is NOT ok for someone to tell you what to do with your face!!

Like PP have said, you need to get this in writing.

I also think an email where you reiterate the points made to you by both managers, where you are simply asking for confirmation that this is OK, should be enough.

Your company is not following legal guidelines/gender friendly. This is demonstrated by
Manager 1: insisting that you comport yourself in a traditional gender role
Manager 2: Not following this up with HR

There is a chance that any concessions that may be given to other parents, like emergency childcare, early departure arrival for child events, time off for child-related appointments, may not be extended to you.

There is also a chance that Manager 1 will feel thwarted that you clearly have not followed his instructions and have gone over his head to Manager 2. This has the potential for conflict.

Get some tangible confirmation of what happened, or you will be unprotected if this escalates.

I don't own any make up due to allergies had an employer like this once and told him. I don't own any and would not be buying or using it so he could like it or lump it worked there for another year after that lol

The OP hasn’t come back and I suspect this is / thread. But I do feel the female manager offered less than enthusiastic support for you. Motherhood has nothing to do with wearing makeup or its absence. Grooming expectations cannot be discriminatory. Like others have said, I’d keep a record of conversation and probably provide a summary of both conversations to your manager and hr.

Owner of a company. Rarely wear make up unless it’s an event as my job primarily revolves around dealing with other people’s mess and having to find myself in awkward spaces 😂. I would have been wholly offended, asked him for the meeting minutes and raised it. So I am really glad you have spoken to another manager and I hope she rights him in his sexist attitude!

Sue them use the money to find a job that doesn't involve working for backwards hick bellends

Agree with others that this is sex discrimination. The only defence the employer could have (that I can think of) would be if you worked in the beauty/fashion/modelling industry and it was written into a dress code policy that women must wear make up because that's the company's business (eg. If a sales assistant on a beauty counter in a department store was expected to wear a full face of make up to show off the products).
Bloody outrageous!

Thats awful, OP. Sorry you have been asked this.
I think its time more women stopped wearing make up.

Send an email to the manager concerned effectively minuting the meeting. Unless he comes back to you immediately apologising for being a sexist dickhead, report him to HR for discrimination.

So many men in my office should be wearing mascara

Tell him you are gender fluid.

On the days you identify as a man you don't wear make-up, and how dare he make you feel uncomfortable about your appearance. That's literal violence.

What a bloody cheek he has!

You wear what you are comfortable in - he has no right to tell you how to dress as long as you are smart and professional.

Can you ask your manager when the men are scheduled for their makeup application training and walking in high heels training and you'll sign up for that refresher course but until then, he can keep his sexist opinion on whether make up is a requirement (if it is it is for EVERYONE, not just women) to himself!

As you can probably pick up from my post above, I'm livid on your behalf! How dare he!!! I thought this sexist nonsense went out when the requirement to wear high heels all the time was legislated. Jeeeezussss!!

Not a given though, it's it. The response from the female manager was far from ideal - we don't need to justify our reasons for not wearing make-up. She should have just said 'that's totally unacceptable & I'll escalate this for you' & muttered 'misogynistic pig' under her breath as she did so.

What she did was the equivalent of 'I've heard kids are hard work so it's understandable you look like trash. But clean trash, so that's ok'

I don't think pressure of parenting/childcare is relevant. Because you could have a leisurely start the day or a rushed one but what this idiot said is just plain wrong.

Please keep notes and save everything he sends you. I'd be calmly asking him to pop it in an email.

She did say she doesn't have children so doesn't understand the pressures herself
Children are irrelevant to the conversation. You dont want to wear make up and that's it.

This female manager is also an arse.

whether you have children or not is irrelevant in how you dress for work.

Being clean & presentable and wearing clothing appropriate to your role is all that they can really ask. Even if your workplace has a stupid dress code like “business casual “ (and what the hell does that mean) they can’t make that include make up and heels.

I concur with your take on the way that the senior female manager spoke on the subject.

Having taken a moment to gather my thoughts, I'd send an email to the manager who asked you to wear makeup saying that you're just following up on the conversation you had on X date while you were at Y conference where he asked you to wear makeup and can he confirm that conversation took place as you describe. If he comes to speak with you ask for him to put his reply in writing please.
Then follow it up by sending said reply to HR and saying that you believe that it is discriminatory to demand that women wear makeup if men are not expected to wear it too. If men are not expected to wear makeup, then could HR please consider issuing a statement clearly pointing out the sexism and how neither men nor women are required to wear makeup.

There are so many red flags here!!! I’m glad you spoke to someone OP but even then you said they were ‘slightly understanding’. This has nothing to do with kids. This is discrimination. You are being discriminated against because of how you look.

I would definitely keep a record of everything that’s happened and decide whether or not you want to take it further. If you report to HR there will at least be a record of it and also - you don’t know what else this other manager might be saying to other employees. He can’t be allowed to get away with it.

Something similar happened to my then manager years ago. The entire team plus HR were copied on this email to her Director:

“Dear X, Quick follow up on our conversation earlier where you indicated I need to wear makeup and “dress more like a lady”. Please could you: (1) provide more detail what specifically a “lady” dresses like as you can appreciate this is a very subjective area; (2) recommend the type/brands of makeup you personally think are most important/suitable for me to effectively do my role; and (3) refer me to the company policy on this for the avoidance of any further confusion. Cc’ing the team for their thoughts, input and information. Thanks, x”.

She was an amazing leader and taught me the importance of calling out BS the moment you spot it.

Mainly - congratulations on your promotion and your colleague is an idiot.

It really is insane that in 2024 some managers are still making these comments.

Are the men in your organisation expected to wear heels and make-up to look 'professional' and spoken to if they don't?

This is legally a case of discrimination as different expectations are placed on you at work purely based on the fact that you are a woman. The fact that you are a mother is irrelevant and you should not be made to feel guilty about that either.

The male senior manager should have been spoken to by HR.

Ask him where he buys his make up from?