Make up at work

[ZebraGiraffe12]

I posted previously regarding achieving a promotion and I am super happy about this and I love the promotion. However, I have had a meeting today about a complaint from one of our senior managers. Before coming back from maternity leave I liked to be very glamourous, high heels, make up, etc. However, since coming back from maternity I prefer a nice flat shoe or a small heel and minimal or no make up. If I am at home doing video conferences I will rarely wear make up, when travelling I will wear a bit (lots of photos taken).

Last week I was taking part in a training conference for managers across the world. It was a 5 day conference and on 4 of the days I wore no make up, on the second day I was presenting at the conference and decided to wear some make up. I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional. I feel absolutely awful and cried all through my lunch.

Someone please reassure me that I am not in the wrong and the senior manager at my work is. I haven't seen him since I was 4 months pregnant so I know my look has changed a lot.

Thank you

What a cunt.

Speak to HR, absolutely not acceptable.

When I was 21 I had a summer job as a care assistant in a nursing home.
I got pulled into the manager office one day for:
Not wearing tights - my uniform dress covered my knees, most staff didn't wear them and it was sweltering inside the home

Worst of all, not wearing makeup - I was told that I'd looked presentable at my interview as I'd be wearing makeup so they'd expected me to continue once working. Who the fuck wants to wear a full face of makeup in a boiling nursing home doing the very physical job of caring for residents?! There was nothing wrong with my "normal" face. Cheeky fuckers!

So her unmade up face is not presentable?

The bastard made her cry over something that had absolutely nothing to do with her work.

Wow ! And I thought my boss was the No1 dick!

So why don't men typically wear makeup?

What you mean is - you think make up makes women conform to a societal expectation, that you share, about how they should look.

Although personally if someone judged my professional worth based on how I look (unless I was a model or something where my looks were a necessary criteria) I would think they were the unprofessional one.

I do think the fact that OP is now a mum is relevant though. It’s played a part in OP wanting to be more comfortable, and there are possible time constraints where there weren’t before. I think the manager was treading on thin ice in a few areas.

Could you not put on a clown's make-up one day and go see him and ask him if that's ok?

Ditto

This is nothing about being tidy or presentable.

This is telling women that they are ugly/unpleasant/unacceptable to look at unless they change their face to look different. A normal-looking woman is not professional.

Just like certain cultures have traditionally had fringe elements of pressure put on those with 'too dark' skin to use chemicals or products to artificially make their skin look lighter.

This is purely rooted in basic misogyny - and it is an outrage for anybody to try to tell you that your natural looks are too hideous to be seen in public.

I'm sorry, is it 1952?

No it isn’t. Wearing make up isn’t obligatory for her role, the reason why she doesn’t is irrelevant.

it just makes working mums look badly organised to management. And makes it seem like o/p is in the wrong, but is asking for accommodation due to being a parent. Like she knows she should wear make up and heels, but being a parent means she can’t.

when the real issue is she should not be expected to wear make up and heels, regardless of why or anything else going on in her life.

same as telling black men and women they can’t wear their hair in a natural Afro. You just can’t. You can’t say it’s ok for parents as they have time constraints, but any child free people cannot wear Afros.

Sexist discrimination.

This must be breeching some kind of employment law, policy, whatever

YANBU

God that’s bonkers, I never wore one jot of makeup in all the years I worked for the nhs…luckily I was in a profession that required trousers but nurses were always expected to wear tights ,bare legs were not allowed ( once upon a time nor were tattoos but I’m sure that’s changed) .thank god few wear dresses now and scrubs/ trousers are more common.

I never wear makeup at work, meeting, presentations, meeting potential or current clients.

Do the men wear makeup too?
Are the men told to wear makeup ?

No

This is pure sex discrimination and really quite horrifying and i would be making an official complaint on the grounds of sex discrimination.

There is literally NOTHING about make up that links to your professionalism. Do you think men are automatically less professional then?

Exactly @shepherdsangeldelight
If you can only ‘look’ professional by wearing makeup why do men get to the top of their game so easily and not women wearing makeup.

Its really irrelevant if some people chose to wear makeup and some don’t.
It has nothing to do with their professionalism.

No wonder women have to constantly battle for equality when this behaviour is allowed to go on and some women think it’s acceptable.

It sucks but I think makeup makes you look more professional

I think doing my job to the best of my ability makes me look more professional, but what do I know? (wearer of at most tinted moisturiser and translucent powder). Even in the bad old days of the 70s I was never told I needed to wear more than that at work. And some of us (me included) just don't like the feeling of a faceful of slap and can't be bothered with it.

It doesn’t sound to me like the female manager was much better though, with that bullshit about not understanding the pressures of motherhood.

I’m not a mother and I don’t wear makeup at work. How remiss of me.

my face is part of selling the company

Is he actually admitting a looks and appearance based hiring policy?
What if someone has an accident or medical condition and becomes disfigured, do they have to leave? Get treated differently? What if someone’s stunning but clueless at any other aspect of the job except being ‘the face of’

As long as you and your clothes are clean and in good order and follow a reasonable dress code, per most previous comments, he’s out of order and I say that as someone who does ordinarily wear makeup.

This doesn't surprise me. I get a lot more co-operation at work when I have make up on and wear heels and dress up. When I have my hair neatly brushed into a ponytail with smart flat shoes and no make up, people are often lukewarm. It's totally depressing.

There is also a culture of senior male staff sleeping with younger female early careers staff.

I'm not sure that's worse: Her not understanding why you shouldn't be asked to wear make up.

The female manager's comments were just as bad. Implying that because OP has had kids her standards have dropped.

Women returning to work after maternity are treated differently. I experienced it. It was presumed that I wouldn't want to attend nights out anymore. It was presumed that I wouldn't be as good at my job any more because I wouldn't want to stay later than my contracted hours (despite plenty of work colleagues without kids clocking off before me). I had one colleague start rumours that I didn't want to be at work anymore and was only there because otherwise I would have to pay my maternity allowance back. I had one colleague telling me to 'bake a cake' to win colleagues over. Complete misogynistic fuckers, the lot of them. This was 10 years ago. Clearly nothing has changed.

I agree. I have no kids and never wear heels or makeup. Thankfully I work in software! But unless you are an actor or model etc, no woman should be required to wear makeup!