Make up at work

[ZebraGiraffe12]

I posted previously regarding achieving a promotion and I am super happy about this and I love the promotion. However, I have had a meeting today about a complaint from one of our senior managers. Before coming back from maternity leave I liked to be very glamourous, high heels, make up, etc. However, since coming back from maternity I prefer a nice flat shoe or a small heel and minimal or no make up. If I am at home doing video conferences I will rarely wear make up, when travelling I will wear a bit (lots of photos taken).

Last week I was taking part in a training conference for managers across the world. It was a 5 day conference and on 4 of the days I wore no make up, on the second day I was presenting at the conference and decided to wear some make up. I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional. I feel absolutely awful and cried all through my lunch.

Someone please reassure me that I am not in the wrong and the senior manager at my work is. I haven't seen him since I was 4 months pregnant so I know my look has changed a lot.

Thank you

I'm also one who wears makeup, heels etc most days. And I also think this is super unreasonable. It should be entirely up to you what you wear on your face, body and feet as long as you look clean, tidy and professional.

Wow. He's an arse. You're not employed to be a model. He has no say over what your face looks like. How dare he call your natural face "unprofessional". It's sex discrimination. He doesn't consider his own naked face unprofessional or that of any other men in the company, does he? Don't cry, get angry.

ZG... I would write to the manager (f) you met with, repeàt back to her what you discussed and get her to confirm in writing that there is no requirement for you to be wearing makeup etc. Then log it with HR and say it is not a complaint at this stage but you want it on record. What a sexist a s s!

Please get it in writing. Also diarise how you felt and that you were crying and for how long. Screenshot this entire thread. We have HR laws exactly for this purpose. Your world has changed as has your identity with your pregnancy and the birth of your child. Your psychological well-being is as important to you as a mother, as a professional and as a human being, and right now you are juggling them all to find out exactly who is who and where you fit them all into your life.

Capture the conversation in writing to specifically highlight what has been discussed, send to him as a record.

Then ask him what’s his plans for his own face, to make more appealing, as you’d noticed that although it’s not changed that much over the time you’d known him, it hasn’t started from a very appealing level in the first place… in the interests of the company of course.

What decade is this? Mad Men?

What has being a parent got to do with wearing makeup or heels? I have 3 children and always have the time to put on makeup every morning! Take that out of the equation because it’s not relevant and it makes working parents sound like they can’t function at full capacity anymore.You don’t want to wear makeup or heels and it’s not lawful for them to ask you to.

Well done for reaching out to someone.

hopefully the senior woman you spoke to will endure this is addressed and he is told not to repeat such claptrap. as it is discriminatory.

Good idea to make a record, but you might need to be brave to follow the advice of some posters and send it to him.

A conversation with HR ,to let them know what happened isn't a bad idea, as it formalises it. (and they are less likely to take it personally if you send an email to note that you discussed. If you do it, before they do, then you get a bit ahead of them)

it is important to reference the impact it had on you, as really it is harassment.

Even if it’s a cosmetics company, unless you’re specifically employed to be a model, not on at all to demand make up. The comment about children is also bizarre. Is this a UK company? This century?

This is awful. If you're not in a union currently, join one now. Hope it all turns out okay for you!

Google Nicola Thorp high heels, I thought she'd gone to tribunal but looks like she focused on getting the guidance changed.

Email the senior manager and ask them to confirm via email that they have an expectation of women to wear makeup and to make no change to their appearance following having a baby. He will immediately realise he has fucked up big time, will likely refuse and will tread more carefully in future. Then email the other manager and ask her to confirm that there is no requirement to wear makeup. Finally, email hr and ask them to direct you to any policy they have about females wearing makeup and not changing their appearance following the birth of a baby. Again, they will be getting very nervous. All of these actions should offer you security to present yourself however you wish and will give you a paper trail in case anything happens in the future.

Does he say this crap to the male staff?

Is this the 1960s? Sounds like a trip to HR to me. And that isn’t something I say lightly. Your manager sounds like a misogynistic asshole who needs an education in undoing their subconscious bias. P.S. That applies even if the manager is a woman!

Complain that he’s not wearing make up and this upsets you.

This is one of those situations where I'd say "Thanks, that's an interesting perspective. Could you pop it in writing in an email so I can look into it?"

Gives them time to stop and realise they've made a dumb request.

What an absolute arsehole 🤯you should seriously consider reporting the comment to HR as that’s all kind of wrong and he shouldn’t get away with such degrading comments.

Dont let anyone drag you down! Be proud of how much you’ve achieved in life. As long as you are happy with yourself it doesn’t really matter what others think.

Ask him which makeup brand he can recommend.

you need to nip that in the bud too, though. Just because she doesn't have children she doesn't have to say that plus the "but... i understand it must be hard" because is that going to be in relation to make up and heels today and then move on to other things (such as leaving on time for childminder/school pickup/parent evening etc)

The simple fact is that a rule about clothing and appearance must apply equally everyone. If you feel secure in your job and ability to handle it, share a few pics of Pip Bunce on Girl-Day and say "is this what you mean?"

Better: always make sure you are well presented, and that is enough. If another man says something do the email confirmation thing as follow up. and then escalate to your manager and tell her it's HR if it happens again.

Congratulations on the promotion. You're doing well. Ignore them.

This is discriminatory and you could go all out. Depends on what you want to do and if you can be botbered to do anything about it or juat suck it up, but I once had a female boss that said we must wear heels and smile and wave at the ceo when he walks past, I left the job aftet that conversation as it pxxsed me off so much. I personally would talk to hr maybe not mention namea untik you have their opinion and then decide if its worth taking forward. People are dxxcks at work, after i came back from mat leave my boss asked me 'why are yoh not more concerned with being home with your children, dont you think your role is now at home' and another favourite remark 'why do you have chiildren when youre not married, don't yoh think thats a bit slxutty' I work in a male dominated field and I pick my battles. i won a years pay in tribunal after taking my employer to court after I finally grew some balls and had enough of being chewed up when I came back from mat leave the second time. Document everything, keep evidence, dates of conversations etc, you might need it.

Well done @Mimimimi1234

I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional.

Unless you work for a cosmetics company and have something in your actual contract about wearing make up to promote the brand, your manager was hugely out of line here.

You would definitely have a complaint on the grounds of sex-based discrimination.

Definitely report this to HR and consider getting a solicitor. This could escalate and you’ll need a proper record.

It is blatant sexism and could also be construed as sexual harassment; ie the expectation on you to get dolled up as a sales tactic.

I hope he gets sacked or you get to sue them.

I agree it's irrelevant if u have children or the time to do this, it's whether u have the inclination that's important. Sexist pig. Is he going to be spoken to about his comments?

On the other hand... if you would like to wear make up, then say "fine, but you have to provide the make up. I like x-brand. And i will require the first 30 minutes of my working day to be blocked on my calendar while i put it on. and i will be requiring y-brand of make up remover etc"