Make up at work

[ZebraGiraffe12]

I posted previously regarding achieving a promotion and I am super happy about this and I love the promotion. However, I have had a meeting today about a complaint from one of our senior managers. Before coming back from maternity leave I liked to be very glamourous, high heels, make up, etc. However, since coming back from maternity I prefer a nice flat shoe or a small heel and minimal or no make up. If I am at home doing video conferences I will rarely wear make up, when travelling I will wear a bit (lots of photos taken).

Last week I was taking part in a training conference for managers across the world. It was a 5 day conference and on 4 of the days I wore no make up, on the second day I was presenting at the conference and decided to wear some make up. I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional. I feel absolutely awful and cried all through my lunch.

Someone please reassure me that I am not in the wrong and the senior manager at my work is. I haven't seen him since I was 4 months pregnant so I know my look has changed a lot.

Thank you

Email him. “Dear Benny Hill. The 1970s have called and they want your attitude to women back.” What a nob.

Fuck that.
Onlike wearing makeup sometimes but don’t every day. I hate hate hate that women are expected to spend an hour a day doing hair and makeup and men just walk out the door.

If wearing makeup is a requirement then they can write it into your contract and give you money and allow you to start at 10am but pay you from 9am to give you paid time to get ready. Unless they are expecting the same of men.

Nah I would take this further. He shouldn’t be able to get away with that at all. Call HR, ACAS, your union or Pregnant then Screwed for advice. Write it all down now as a statement so you remember every detail. Even better if he put it in writing.

I’m fuming at the senior female colleague’s reaction too! Sounds like she is just sweeping it under the carpet. I would be raging on your behalf.

Glad you got it sorted. But for future reference, this issue is covered by the Equality Act 2010. In general, dress codes for men and women should be similar, and an employer can’t require female employees to wear makeup, or have manicured nails, etc. And they can’t subject female employees to adverse employment decisions for not doing so - that would be considered sex discrimination. There is also case law to support that the comments made to you about your appearance can constitute harassment. I would keep a record of everything that’s happened, just in case it comes up again at some point. I would also hope that the person who took it on himself to talk to you in this way has been advised as to how much trouble he could potentially cause if it happens again.

Both managers’ responses are inappropriate. The manager who told you that you should be wearing makeup is outrageous, and you need to make sure you have it on record with HR that he asked you this, as it is discrimination. Where I work, we have a specific Dignity at Work policy that you would be able to register a breach of in this case. Worth checking if your company has a similar policy. It is very clear that as long as staff are complying with uniform guidelines (another policy we have) then it is a breach of the dignity at work policy to comment on another staff member’s appearance. The female manager who commented on not understanding the pressures of having children has effectively stated that she thinks it must be hard to stay professional once you have given birth. This assumes that staying professional means wearing makeup. It would be harder to pin a discrimination case on her, but her attitude is not supportive. In order that it does not escalate at a later date, I would make sure you have it logged with HR.

Senior female colleague doesn't want to rock the boat - pretty typical, I'd say, and probably thinking of her own interests. That doesn't make what happened right, and OP may wish to take it further, but the way things are the colleague's reaction is no more than I'd expect.

Can’t believe the female manager wasn’t more understanding. I think having a baby is irrelevant, what you look like (as long as you are clean and presentable) has no bearing on your ability to do your job and people’s preferences for how they look changes over time. I like makeup but wear minimal makeup for work because the “effort” I put into my face has nothing to do with the effort I put into my work. I’m so sorry they made you feel like this, you’re beautiful regardless and I bet you’re great at your job

You should put in a grievance about the complaint and the senior manager. Its completely unacceptable.

The only obligation for make up should be for tv, film or stage work in front of an audience. If you choose not to, you have my 100% support.

I think a complaint of harassment would be justified if you chose to make one.

Do you have it in writing? This is clear cut sex discrimination.

It's nothing about having children.

It's about the expectation only being on women to wear make up and heels. Unless the male members of staff were also told the same thing.

Absolutely this! And you might cc in HR…

Ask him what make up brand he sides and you will employ the same?

What an absolute joke of a leader

I was told this years ago by a massively obese, ugly manager with dandruff, body odour and rampant tooth decay so bad you could smell him all over the entire building and yet I was supposed to wear makeup and high heels.

He had a go at me for carrying a key ring that could vaguely be the colours of the Rastafarian flag too. The whole conversation was so weird, I didn't know what to make of it.

Shortly after, someone played a prank on him that injured him and he was off work for months. He didn't deserve that but I moved on before he came back. I often wonder if he is still coming out with those gems.

Ask him how he’s managed to progress so far in his career if it’s unprofessional not to wear make up.

she doesn't have children so doesn't understand the pressures herself

I don't understand what pressures having children brings into it. Is it that you're saying you would put makeup on, but you don't have time these days because of the children?

This is sex discrimination.

Which industry do you work in? What is your role at the conference?

PS just to be clear. You don't have to wear makeup just because you don't feel like it. Your natural face is not unprofessional. You don't need an excuse of not having time because of children. Your face, your decision!

I'm glad you have spoken to someone about this, but I would still be inclined to point out to your manager that it is not 1956.

I'm so sorry you experienced this unacceptable behaviour, followed up with some pretty mediocre behaviour from the senior female colleague too.

I would definitely follow up on the meeting with your female colleague with a short email summary of your meeting and your understanding of the concluded points, to have written documentation of both the original comments, and the approach taken when you raised the issue with the senior colleague.

Additionally might be helpful to ask them to/approach HR to review their formal staff training policies, per this advice following the recent Employment Tribunal case on a similar issue:

Further, employers must take into consideration the societal and systemic pressures many employees (and often particularly women) face over their appearance, and potentially integrate this into unconscious bias training.

That is discrimination which is illegal!

As noted upthread there is case law on this.
The key factors are your industry (eg you were presenting at a global L’Oréal conference?), what written guidance you have been issued (eg Emirates has very detailed make up requirements, right down to the shade of lipstick) and if men are also subject to grooming and appearance guidelines (eg would a male colleague be sanctioned for having a mullet or a comedy tie).

Assuming you were wearing business appropriate clothes for your presentation, and none of the above applies, you would possibly have grounds for a cause of action under the equality act. Leaving all that aside it’s really upsetting and I’m sorry.

In my time I’ve been told to wear make up to meetings with clients - but it was said kindly by a peer who lent me her makeup bag before a big meeting.

(I’m a solicitor so I take a professional interest in this but it’s not my specialist area. Some of the best female partners at my old firm wore no make up at all BUT were always carefully attired in business wear so they fitted in in the boardroom).

I have very coil like curly hair and when I was younger I once went for a job working behind a bar and despite my experience the man who interviewed me said he would like to offer me the job but I'd have to do something about that unruly hair.
Shocked I asked him what he meant and he replied well I thought most woman had a pair of hair straighteners.
I was desperate for the job so took it and went in sporting my curls and all the customers commented on how they loved my hair so I'm glad I took no notice of that horrible bald man.

I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional

So, did he have makeup on while telling you this? If not, why? I would have questioned him on this aspect.