Boss will not authorize holiday

[Alwaysintheway]

My boss plays mind games constantly. He enjoys it.
I applied for 4 days holiday as have long weekend away with DH, hotel stay and concert. (Last year I hardly took any holiday and had to be forced to use them up, I enjoy my job)
I forgot to apply for the 4 days when I booked it in Jan and only remembered to apply for them at the end of March.
By this time my colleague had booked one day off for one day out which is in the middle of my 4 days. So in theory she applied for her one day, the day before I applied for my 4 days.
Boss joked that me and my colleague will have to fight it out for that day.
But he still has not authorised my leave and it's two weeks away. The other day after asking if he was going to authorise it, he said again that we would have to "fight it out".
If this is another game, I don't want to play it.
If I ask him he will enjoy saying the same thing again. He is also putting me and my colleague, who I really like, in a horrible situation for one days holiday.
Do I cancel and lose the ticket money £140, hotel can be cancelled. Or, just wait? Just in case it's another mind game.
I do respect the rules and fully understand a boss has to stick to them but one day?
Would you cancel or wait and see?

He’s effectively told you no unless your colleague is willing to move theirs.

At my place of work holiday won't be authorised if the work can't be covered on the days off due to someone else being on holiday. If that colleague is the only other person who does the job, then that's unfortunate for you, but not a wrong decision. We are able to still have previously refused days off if we can personally find another person willing to cover, or we can swap with someone, but it doesn't sound as though you have enough staff to do that? I guess all you can do is go to your boss and have a serious conversation about it, admitting that you made a mistake but is there anything he can do?

It's an employee market in many sectors. I would start looking for another job to see what's available and make a decision from there if your boss won't let you go for the 4 days.

You obviously need to negotiate with colleague as you can’t have both approved.

I don’t really understand how it took you two months to submit the request! And also why you booked it before having your leave authorised.

I think this sounds like the most sensible option

Same in my organisation. However, I was also made to cancel at least part of my last two blocks of holiday, due to cover issues in the team, and change of work by my previous manager. He has now (thankfully) left, and I hope that you are not in that position with yours.
I think you need to be straight with him and ask outright if you can have the holiday or not. Could you have a shorter break, if he says you can only have 2 days instead of 4, for example?

Ask him straight out again before you cancel it.

Just looking for some advice, I am about to come in to some money (70k) I'm aware this is a hugely privileged position to be in, however I am finding the responsibility of doing the right thing with this money overwhelming. For some background, DP and I have been living in a 1 bed flat for the past 5 years in SE, renting from a family member at a very cheap rate. We now have a little one (7mo) and we would love him to have his own room. We don't know if we should try to buy as although a deposit won't be an issue, and we are in okay jobs, I don't see how we are going to be able to afford mortgage repayments and still be able to live as we are in such an expensive area. DP is from the north so it's much cheaper but I really don't want to move too far from my parents as they offer us so much support with DS. I have thought about shared ownership (if anyone has any experience in this, that would be helpful) or moving in with parents to save more or buying a campervan and running away with my lovely little family 😂 any advice appreciated

Where I work you only need to coordinate your leave with people whose work you cover if they are off. If they do completely different work and them being off has no effect on your job I can't see why you can't both be off at the same time. Sounds like your boss is being awkward for the sake of it. You need to ask very directly for a decision and if he says no ask for a proper explanation based on business need. If he still won't give you a straight answer tell him in writing that if he doesn't reply to you within a couple of days you will consider the request granted.

Regardless of rule regarding leave, and whether people can be off at the same time your boss is a prick. It’s his job to manage the situation. He should have said yes or no well before now. He’s being an arsehole here..

Join a union, even if there is no recognition atm. They can still offer you support and advice. Unions won you/us the holidays we enjoy now.

As others already pointed out - companies do have rules about how many people doing the same job can be out at the same time. I agree that it was badly handled by telling you to sort it out with a colleague but a no would have been any manager's answer if the leave quota was filled.

You can ask to have a conversation about the rules and have those explained to you and maybe even propose a new solution, if one is possible - but that's likely to be a more long-term solution and won't sort out this (depending on the size of the company and how established their procedures are).

It is also possible to have different rules for different departments etc. depending on production needs. For example, I can have 4 people out at the same time in department A but only 2 in department B because of where they sit in the production chain/number of total employees per department/what kind of work they do etc.

If your colleague is unwilling to change (and you already broached the subject) - which is their right - and your manager acted upon company's procedures, I'm afraid there isn't much hope. And not every manager is able to find compromise - in my previous role I was able to cover for staff myself if I wanted to create some flexibility for competing PTO requests. It was difficult, for me, but not undoable for a day or two. In my current role - I have zero flexibility with that.

Your boss should just be saying a plain and simple "no"! The fight it out comment is unprofessional.

Although in my opinion the onus should be on you to speak to the other colleague if you do wish them to look at cancelling their holiday. Your boss went the wrong way about it and should have said something along the lines of "unfortunately, I cannot approve the holiday, however if you wish to speak to colleague and they don't mind cancelling then we can look to authorise it".

The but I could be sick so we would be both off anyway line, what if everyone said this everytime a holiday was not authorised? It doesn't make good business sense to be short staffed on purpose!

As a manager it does irritate me when people book things before having their leave confirmed, that said if someone had something booked i would always accommodate no matter how much bother it puts me to, i think what would happen if that person called in sick, deal with it that way. Life is more important than work and if your boss is being an asshole, firstly being vague and secondly not now makin provisions for you both being off on the same day he is a bad manager. It is not your responsibility to "fight it out" with your colleague, either he authorises the leave or he doesn't, for the sake of one day being understaffed f he refuses the leave quite honestly he is a bad manager, i would probably raise it to HR if were you. it doesnt matter that you forgot or where late, your job should at least prove they are trying to accommodate your request, he isn't, instead he is pitting you against your colleague which is unprofessional and can cause bad feeling in the workplace, he really needs to grow up and do his job properly.

Make sure you have the request documented in writing/email as well

Your boss isn't playing mind games but he is guilty of lack of clarity and this means you now need to push him into giving a clear answer, by asking very direct questions:

"I requested leave on x date. The request is still pending. Jane is off on day Y and is unable to change her plans. Are you able to approve my 4-days leave on that basis, or will you have to reject my request?"

Chances are it will be the latter and while that will be absolutely gutting for you, it won't make him a dick and won't make the situation unfair.

(He may well be a dick for other reasons not stated here but on the basis of this thread, I think his only crime is being unclear)

Are there any other compromise solutions you can think of? I actually have a very similar situation in my team at the moment where it has been agreed that the colleague in your position will work remotely on the day in question therefore covering vital work within the service having to close for a day. It does mean that she'll miss out on some planned activities - working from a hotel room during the day while her family do other things but she found that an acceptable compromise rather than losing the week-long holiday she had planned and would still be able to join her family for evening activities that day. I know that not all wokplaces lend themselves to wfh/remote working but if this is a possibility, could you suggest this option to your boss.

Finally though, one thing that really gets my goat is that a lot of posters are refering to the face you have "booked" your leave with the requisite notice and/or you should just swan out the door and take your "booked" leave. You have not booked leave. You have made a request which, if approved, allows you to go ahead and book the leave. Again, I know many companies will operate differently but, IME, there are very few where you simply log that you won't be around on days x through y and that's the end of it. The OP's situation certainly doesn'y sound like this otherwise there would be no apporval process needed.

If your jobs aren't linked and you do different things, then I don't quite understand why you haven't pointed that out to your boss? If my boss said I had to 'fight it out' over a day's leave with someone whose job didn't really cross over with mine anyway, I'd say 'But we don't cover each other's work, so there's no impact from us both being off on the same day. This has never been an issue before, so I don't quite understand why you can't authorise my leave.'

Have you explained to your colleague that you will lose money etc?
I’d rearrange my one day off if a colleague was going to miss something like your weekend.

People are human and busy and forget stuff, people on here are right arseholes!!

Why would you book the trip away, concert tickets etc without getting the leave authorised first?

You need to speak to your colleague, as it’s obvious from the communication from your boss he won’t be authorising the day she already booked and you need to go back to him once you had that conversation.

YABU OP

It sounds like he is probably winding you up (many peoples idea of humour) and will give you it off. I would call him out on it. I certainly wouldn’t cancel without having a proper talk with him.

People on here are not angry they are frustrated at your inability to communicate what the issue is beyond asking your manager what you are asking in the post -

Colleague booked first, manager said you can't both be off.
You ask colleague very nicely if they can rearrange if they can't then it is not an option (without upsetting them!)
Tell manager colleague cannot rearrange, is it possible to both be off?
If they say no, ask why as jobs not related so you know for future and what their final decision is?

Communicating means there is no hanging about not knowing what is happening.

Your boss is an arse with zero management skills, she/he either acts as a manager, sort this and says “no” to the right person rather than having you deciding between you (and ruining your working relationship in the process.

Considering she is likely to keep her hands off, I would say that you go ahead booking just the 4 days and call sick on the one that overlaps with your colleague.

I know this is not the right approach but neither it is the one your manager is taking. She is being paid more to do her job!

OP should phone in sick due to their poor planning, heard it all

OP - I would explain to your boss what your leave is for and that you will lose money and ask why it's connected to your colleague who does a different job. I wouldn't cancel and lose money!!

Speak to people... or cancel and lose out.

I wouldn't say angry, but I've been the person who booked first and had pressure put on me to cancel for a colleague. They booked it first, for their own reasons and shouldn't be made to feel guilty for it.

YABU

Just ask him. Like a grown-up.

You don't have more more right to this time off than your colleague does.