Page 4 | Boss will not authorize holiday

Alwaysintheway · 2023-05-30T06:55:05+00:00

My boss plays mind games constantly. He enjoys it. I applied for 4 days holiday as have long weekend away with DH, hotel stay and concert. (Last year I hardly took any holiday and had to be forced to use them up, I enjoy my job) I forgot to apply for the 4 days when I booked it in Jan and only remembered to apply for them at the end of March. By this time my colleague had booked one day off for one day out which is in the middle of my 4 days. So in theory she applied for her one day, the day before I applied for my 4 days. Boss joked that me and my colleague will have to fight it out for that day. But he still has not authorised my leave and it's two weeks away. The other day after asking if he was going to authorise it, he said again that we would have to "fight it out". If this is another game, I don't want to play it. If I ask him he will enjoy saying the same thing again. He is also putting me and my colleague, who I really like, in a horrible situation for one days holiday. Do I cancel and lose the ticket money £140, hotel can be cancelled. Or, just wait? Just in case it's another mind game. I do respect the rules and fully understand a boss has to stick to them but one day? Would you cancel or wait and see?

thesugarbumfairy · 30/05/2023 10:18

OP your boss is clearly not good at handling these situations, but have clearly been given your answer in a ridiculous way. They will not authorise your leave unless your colleague withdraws their request. They have put the ball in your court. You can either ask your colleague if they would consider giving up their day, or you can cancel your holiday.
They booked it first and its your fault you forgot about it. Perhaps a nicer boss would speak to colleague on your behalf, but that clearly isn't going to happen, so stop waffling and speak to them.

BodegaSushi · 30/05/2023 10:20

Am I the only one who gets time off approved before booking holiday? Not only did you not do that, you then waited a further 2 months before asking for it?

YABU

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 10:20

Swannyb · 30/05/2023 09:25

Your boss is being a dick. I am a 'boss' and I would never tell my staff to 'fight it out'. I would be up front immediately as to whether it is a yes or no. I always make sure staff know as soon as possible whether their leave is granted or not (usually on the same day they ask for it).

My old company used to have a policy only one staff member was allowed leave at the same time. It was silly. We could've easily hold down the fort for others for a few days.

This just seems so reasonable to me. I don’t see why others feel that very clear communication is an unreasonable expectation to me.

When I managed I would have never told my staff to sort it out between them, that was my job - not theirs.

Surely part of a managers duty is mange time off? Not delegate it to staff to ‘sort out themselves’. What if the other person wants to say no? Manager is being a total cop out here.

NoTouch · 30/05/2023 10:29

Swannyb · 30/05/2023 09:25

Your boss is being a dick. I am a 'boss' and I would never tell my staff to 'fight it out'. I would be up front immediately as to whether it is a yes or no. I always make sure staff know as soon as possible whether their leave is granted or not (usually on the same day they ask for it).

My old company used to have a policy only one staff member was allowed leave at the same time. It was silly. We could've easily hold down the fort for others for a few days.

It is likely, as the OP gives lots of irrelevant information and very little relevant, the boss has been upfront and the rules are very clear, it is just the OP doesn't like them.

He will not approve unless the colleague who booked first cancels, but has phrased OP asking colleague jokingly as "fight it out".

Ottersmith · 30/05/2023 10:33

Just call in sick, find a new job, then bloody quit.

SwedishDeathClearance · 30/05/2023 10:34

BodegaSushi · 30/05/2023 10:20

Am I the only one who gets time off approved before booking holiday? Not only did you not do that, you then waited a further 2 months before asking for it?

YABU

Not usually possible in many places
Flights open up 11.5 months in advance and holiday year doesn't

HoppingPavlova · 30/05/2023 10:35

I don’t understand employers who won’t let two people be off at the same time. What if you were both unwell? They’d have to cope then surely.

Completely different as that can’t be helped, not ideal but people need to work around, and potentially offer less than satisfactory service levels. Whereas planned leave involves, ‘planning’ to ensure that service levels are what they should be.

In this situation, it appears OP booked a holiday but didn’t bother to book time off work initially. Then a colleague booked a days leave in the time OP wax planning to be away, but yet had made no leave arrangements. Now the manager says to ask the other person if they can cancel and OP is angry. OP is angry at the wrong person.

HoppingPavlova · 30/05/2023 10:41

Not usually possible in many places
Flights open up 11.5 months in advance and holiday year doesn't

Thats common but most places have workarounds. We have an Excel calendar and people apply to manager via email if system not open for that period and approval is given via email and it’s put into group calendar so people can look at any clashes when forward planning. When system opens up it is formally put through and approved. We did have one guy not bother and just book when two others had been given email acknowledgement that theirs would be okay and to go ahead and book. He had to cancel flight/accom.

TeaYarn · 30/05/2023 11:11

I’d not mention it again until you’re swanning out the door for your long weekend. I’d tell him you fought it out and you won.

GiveupHQ · 30/05/2023 11:13

I wonder whether some posters have ever had a job

Iyiyiiii · 30/05/2023 11:14

TeaYarn · 30/05/2023 11:11

I’d not mention it again until you’re swanning out the door for your long weekend. I’d tell him you fought it out and you won.

And then op probably wouldn't have a job to return to

Problem of future leave solved!

DiscoBeat · 30/05/2023 11:15

I guess he's hoping you can work it out between you so that he doesn't have to be the bad guy and say no.
I wouldn't have booked the tickets until I knew I had the time off, personally!

DiscoBeat · 30/05/2023 11:16

I’d not mention it again until you’re swanning out the door for your long weekend. I’d tell him you fought it out and you won.
Hopefully that's a joke!

OCarumba · 30/05/2023 11:19

GiveupHQ · 30/05/2023 11:13

I wonder whether some posters have ever had a job

I’ve been self employed for years so tbh all the associated BS is a bit of a vague memory.

The OP’s boss has not communicated v clearly, and tbh given that she’s already got the trip booked (her mistake admittedly), you wouldn’t think it’d be out of the question to try and work something out for one day.

Makemyday99 · 30/05/2023 11:23

OCarumba · 30/05/2023 11:19

I’ve been self employed for years so tbh all the associated BS is a bit of a vague memory.

The OP’s boss has not communicated v clearly, and tbh given that she’s already got the trip booked (her mistake admittedly), you wouldn’t think it’d be out of the question to try and work something out for one day.

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Absolutely but if company policy is that you cannot take leave if it clashes then deviation from policy causes a whole world of problems for the future in my experience; precedent is everything to employees. I suppose it depends on how big the company is

GoodChat · 30/05/2023 11:28

If you actually cant both be off at the same time, he needs to communicate that like an adult.

OCarumba · 30/05/2023 11:31

Makemyday99 · 30/05/2023 11:23

Absolutely but if company policy is that you cannot take leave if it clashes then deviation from policy causes a whole world of problems for the future in my experience; precedent is everything to employees. I suppose it depends on how big the company is

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Yeah can see your point

TeaYarn · 30/05/2023 11:56

Iyiyiiii · 30/05/2023 11:14

And then op probably wouldn't have a job to return to

Problem of future leave solved!

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It’s is a win win situation 😁

Quveas · 30/05/2023 12:14

Ottersmith · 30/05/2023 10:33

Just call in sick, find a new job, then bloody quit.

If the OP suddenly and coincidentally finds themselves sick on the day that they asked for leave that was refused, then they will likely need to find a new job, possibly without a reference. Pulling a sickie is potentially gross misconduct, and given the facts, any tribunal would find the balance of probability in the employers favour.

As a manager, if I am going to have to decline someone's leave request, then that is what I do - a simple "I am sorry but that is not authorised because...". I think the manager should have done the same and left no room for doubt - but he has been clear enough that someone else has booked it and so he has not approved it. But beyond that the whole situation is the OP's own fault, and advising her to swan off anyway, assume it is approved when it isn't, or pull a sickie is really irresponsible. Each of those actions could result in the OP being dismissed - for something that is their own fault in the first place.

I love how anonymous people are more than happy to advise others to do entirely stupid things at work - I genuinely wonder how many of them would be stupid enough to do the same if it were them in their own workplace.

OttoGraph · 30/05/2023 12:22

Don't ask again, take leave and if he says anything

just say we fought it out and both decided to have the time off work

OttoGraph · 30/05/2023 12:23

I genuinely wonder how many of them would be stupid enough to do the same if it were them in their own workplace.

I did just that, and as the manager had fucked up I got away with it

Kiwano · 30/05/2023 12:29

I'd start looking for another job. I can't do with silly boys playing mind games.

Codlingmoths · 30/05/2023 12:29

Quveas · 30/05/2023 12:14

If the OP suddenly and coincidentally finds themselves sick on the day that they asked for leave that was refused, then they will likely need to find a new job, possibly without a reference. Pulling a sickie is potentially gross misconduct, and given the facts, any tribunal would find the balance of probability in the employers favour.

As a manager, if I am going to have to decline someone's leave request, then that is what I do - a simple "I am sorry but that is not authorised because...". I think the manager should have done the same and left no room for doubt - but he has been clear enough that someone else has booked it and so he has not approved it. But beyond that the whole situation is the OP's own fault, and advising her to swan off anyway, assume it is approved when it isn't, or pull a sickie is really irresponsible. Each of those actions could result in the OP being dismissed - for something that is their own fault in the first place.

I love how anonymous people are more than happy to advise others to do entirely stupid things at work - I genuinely wonder how many of them would be stupid enough to do the same if it were them in their own workplace.

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I’d get away with it every time although my boss would also never be a dick. I however would get emails on my phone and be prepared to handle any emergencies that one day we were both off, there might be a few of us like that though.

Original poster

Alwaysintheway · 30/05/2023 12:37

Yes and they got very upset and teary eyed, day out with older child planned

OP posts:

Original poster

Alwaysintheway · 30/05/2023 12:39

I have no idea, it's never been discussed. We do different things so not linked in any way

OP posts: