Page 2 | Boss will not authorize holiday

Alwaysintheway · 2023-05-30T06:55:05+00:00

My boss plays mind games constantly. He enjoys it. I applied for 4 days holiday as have long weekend away with DH, hotel stay and concert. (Last year I hardly took any holiday and had to be forced to use them up, I enjoy my job) I forgot to apply for the 4 days when I booked it in Jan and only remembered to apply for them at the end of March. By this time my colleague had booked one day off for one day out which is in the middle of my 4 days. So in theory she applied for her one day, the day before I applied for my 4 days. Boss joked that me and my colleague will have to fight it out for that day. But he still has not authorised my leave and it's two weeks away. The other day after asking if he was going to authorise it, he said again that we would have to "fight it out". If this is another game, I don't want to play it. If I ask him he will enjoy saying the same thing again. He is also putting me and my colleague, who I really like, in a horrible situation for one days holiday. Do I cancel and lose the ticket money £140, hotel can be cancelled. Or, just wait? Just in case it's another mind game. I do respect the rules and fully understand a boss has to stick to them but one day? Would you cancel or wait and see?

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:16

The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take, plus 1 day. For example, a worker would give 3 days’ notice for 1 day’s leave.
An employer can refuse a leave request or cancel leave but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested, plus 1 day. For example, an employer would give 11 days’ notice if the worker asked for 10 days’ leave.
If the contract says something different about the notice a worker or employer should give, what’s in the contract will apply.

This is from gov.co.uk. I would just wait until it’s too late for him to decline.

loudbatperson · 30/05/2023 08:17

Have you asked your colleague if they could move their day off?

That's is what your boss is asking you to do, albeit in a clumsy way.

If you both cannot be on leave at the same time, then it's tough. You made the error by not booking the leave before booking the weekend away.

Your colleague booked first, so it's tough really. As your colleague booked one day before you I am guessing that means you only remembered once you saw their booking on the calendar?

All you can do it ask, nicely, if they are able to move it. And please gracious if they can't and don't badger or guilt trip them about it.

Your boss is giving you the chance to sort it between yourselves rather than just outright refusing your request.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 30/05/2023 08:17

This doesn't sound like mind games to me. It sounds like he's a crap manager who thinks he's funny, when really he needs to be clear. Telling you to "fight it out" is a jokey way of saying you need to ask your colleague if she'll switch her day.

RelentlessForwardProgress · 30/05/2023 08:18

If I was your colleague I'd think you were a cheeky, entitled PIA.

She booked her one day off, might be for something important, might not. But it was important enough to her to actually book it.

You, who did have an important reason to book the time off, didn't book it for 2 months.

When you say 'So in theory she applied for her one day, the day before I applied for my 4 days'....there's no theory here, is there?

Creamyoda · 30/05/2023 08:18

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:16

The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take, plus 1 day. For example, a worker would give 3 days’ notice for 1 day’s leave.
An employer can refuse a leave request or cancel leave but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested, plus 1 day. For example, an employer would give 11 days’ notice if the worker asked for 10 days’ leave.
If the contract says something different about the notice a worker or employer should give, what’s in the contract will apply.

This is from gov.co.uk. I would just wait until it’s too late for him to decline.

That's not what it means, an employer doesn't have to approve just as you ask at a certain time.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 30/05/2023 08:18

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:16

The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take, plus 1 day. For example, a worker would give 3 days’ notice for 1 day’s leave.
An employer can refuse a leave request or cancel leave but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested, plus 1 day. For example, an employer would give 11 days’ notice if the worker asked for 10 days’ leave.
If the contract says something different about the notice a worker or employer should give, what’s in the contract will apply.

This is from gov.co.uk. I would just wait until it’s too late for him to decline.

the timescale is for cancelling leave so not relevant to the op as she doesn’t have confirmed leave.

It sounds like the op already knows she and her colleague can’t be off at the same time

lunar1 · 30/05/2023 08:21

She applied for her holiday first, so if you can only have one of you off at a time you would have to ask your colleague to swap.

Your boss can't do that for you.

The rest of the story is just window dressing.

bellac11 · 30/05/2023 08:21

questgp · 30/05/2023 07:59

I find your reaction a bit odd, if my boss wouldn't tell me a straight answer I would challenge them on it, not sit around waiting to lose money and not know if I can go away.

He's given a straight answer, she needs to negotiate with her colleague. Perhaps his phraseology is off but its clear she needs to speak to her colleague and decide which of them can swap/change

I have to say this to staff all the time, theres only so many allowed off at a time, summer is coming up so we will have this again, I ask them to double check with each other if there are any days they can change with each other to make the numbers right for the business needs.

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:23

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 30/05/2023 08:18

the timescale is for cancelling leave so not relevant to the op as she doesn’t have confirmed leave.

It sounds like the op already knows she and her colleague can’t be off at the same time

Show quote history

An employer can refuse a leave request or cancel leave but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested,

Teddypops · 30/05/2023 08:24

Both you and your boss both need to be more assertive!!

Speak to your colleague to see if they have something planned or if it is something they can change.

It's your fault for not booking in time and you not listening to your manager. But he needs to be more straight forward.

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:24

Creamyoda · 30/05/2023 08:18

That's not what it means, an employer doesn't have to approve just as you ask at a certain time.

Show quote history

No, they don’t.

But the do have to refuse the request within a certain time frame.

LimeCheesecake · 30/05/2023 08:25

assuming you can’t both be off work - then your boss is being a dick about not managing his team properly, but the answer is “no unless you speak to colleague and ask her to move her day off”

so he could do it, but if he’s already approved her day off he wants to honour that.

so make a decision, do you want to ask your colleague to swap her day off or make other plans?

Creamyoda · 30/05/2023 08:25

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:24

No, they don’t.

But the do have to refuse the request within a certain time frame.

Show quote history

Well he has refused it, that's what OP is moaning about.

DailyEnergyCrisis · 30/05/2023 08:25

He’s being completely clear to my mind- you can’t both be off, your colleague booked first so if you want to ‘take the leave of her’ you need to negotiate it with it. I totally see where he’s coming from and I’d say the same to my team member in the same circumstances.

Honestly you created this situation yourself and trying to wriggle out of taking responsibility for not booking the annual leave off and he’s rightly saying it’s not possible unless you sort something out with your colleague. It’s unfortunate, but completely fair and standard practise.

tinytemper66 · 30/05/2023 08:26

Can you clarify if you are both able to take the leave at the same time, as your employer states,?or does 1 of you have to been in work on a given day. So only one of you off at a time? If so and she put her request in fist, no have lost out. How long her leave is for is irrelevant.

Needmorelego · 30/05/2023 08:27

Just talk to your colleague. I once had a week off booked. I wasn't going away or doing anything - just using up my holiday allowance.
I discovered a colleague was upset because she had requested the same week but was told no because I was off. Hers was for a family holiday.
I went to the boss and changed my holiday.
It was a simple discussion that took a few minutes.
Why are you letting this drag out OP?

Starlightstarbright1 · 30/05/2023 08:27

It depends if you can have more than one off . Where I work you can do it would be mind games I assume he isn’t authorising the other 3 till he knows if you still want it

tinytemper66 · 30/05/2023 08:27

tinytemper66 · 30/05/2023 08:26

Can you clarify if you are both able to take the leave at the same time, as your employer states,?or does 1 of you have to been in work on a given day. So only one of you off at a time? If so and she put her request in fist, no have lost out. How long her leave is for is irrelevant.

Just read this back and it makes no sense in places. Sorry.

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:27

Creamyoda · 30/05/2023 08:25

Well he has refused it, that's what OP is moaning about.

Show quote history

No, he hasn’t. Telling her to discuss it with her colleague isn’t a refusal. He needs to put in writing the answer is no. This hasn’t happened, therefore OP can wait it out.

Maddy70 · 30/05/2023 08:27

Sorry. This is your issue. If someone else got in before you for that date. Then that's that.

You could ask your colleague but it could be for something important like a wedding or sensitive medical appointment.

Creamyoda · 30/05/2023 08:29

Irritateandunreasonable · 30/05/2023 08:27

No, he hasn’t. Telling her to discuss it with her colleague isn’t a refusal. He needs to put in writing the answer is no. This hasn’t happened, therefore OP can wait it out.

Show quote history

Yes if the OP wants to be willfully pathetic then she could, it won't end well but sure.

FallHappy1 · 30/05/2023 08:30

The way he's worded it is definitely strange, but essentially, he's trying to tell you he can't authorise for you to have all four days off work because your colleague has already booked one of those days off in advance and if you want all 4 days off then you need to ask your colleague if she's willing to change the date she's booked off.
The manager has already authorised your colleague to have the day off, he's hardly going to unauthorise it just because you've now asked for the day off.
Yes, it's an awkward situation, and yes, your boss is a bit of a weirdo, but it's hardly his or your colleague's fault you didn't book your days off ASAP.
Make sure you book your days off work before you pay and finalise any plans in the future.

SoupDragon · 30/05/2023 08:31

Have you actually talked to your colleague about it in the 2 months since you asked for the time off and found out there was a problem?

weekfour · 30/05/2023 08:32

He sounds like a right wanker! I'd be looking at this from what is he actually going to do. He hasn't declined it. He's had plenty of time to do the 'managing'. He's the manager and is just pushing the awkward convo down the line.

Take your leave. He can't sack you. He may start I disciplinary process. I take it you have an otherwise 'clean' record.

I'm by no means suggesting that everyone acts like this all the time. But the manager should have a timescale to respond to requests. A sarcastic 'fight it out' is not a response.

Hellocatshome · 30/05/2023 08:32

LimeCheesecake · 30/05/2023 08:25

assuming you can’t both be off work - then your boss is being a dick about not managing his team properly, but the answer is “no unless you speak to colleague and ask her to move her day off”

so he could do it, but if he’s already approved her day off he wants to honour that.

so make a decision, do you want to ask your colleague to swap her day off or make other plans?

I dont think he is being a dick in not managing the team properly. Bosses very rarely get involved in this kind of thing, why should he spend time negotiating with the other colleague on OPs behalf. If he was being a dick he would just flat refuse OPs holiday, he is giving her a chance to sort it out.

Holiday clashes, shift swaps etc are generally sorted by the employees and presented to the manager for approval.