DH's colleague thwarting flex working request

[mamabeeboo]

Hi all

We are due twins in 8 weeks time, really excited/nervous/stressed, but trying to prepare as much as we can. 😁

DH works in two different shift patterns alternating weekly. One week 6-2pm, next week 9-5pm, then back to 6am.

The plan for the twins is for DH to submit a flexible working request, where he can do 6-2pm shift indefinitely. So we can keep nursery costs down by paying for half day for the twins until 1pm. I can take my lunch break until DH gets back. This works for us financially, for obvious reasons.

The flex working request means his colleague is stuck on the later shift, which is the "worse shift" since you don't have a free afternoon, you are stuck on your own finishing everything etc etc. No real reason other than it's a bit of an inconvenience.

Question - what do we need to be aware of when submitting a flexi working request? Is there anything we can explain on the request to make sure that feedback from colleague is not a reason for a no? Does management even have to share the request to colleagues to get some understanding on how this would be received? Ideally we would like to keep it confidential.

Of course manager will consider the impact on the team, but technically 'colleague doesn't like it' isn't a reason for a decline according to the gov website. But he can make life a bit difficult for DH and kick off quite a bit. He seems to be quite a rowdy person from the few times I have met him.

I do know how to read and luckily anything I struggle with my software for my visual impairment reads out for me, thank you for checking on my mental capabilities

I was answering your statement

on occasion we recruit from outside and I would never dream about asking any of those questions but you would be surprised how much people say in a interview or their applications

With my suprise as I don't find this to be the case in properly conducted professional interviews. Not to the point of knowing if single childless people have living parents who might be dependent on them

I didn't actually ask any questions in the post you were responding to so I'm not sure why you finished with Hope that maybe that answered some of your questions. I would if I were an ableist sort of person make a dig at your reading comprehension, but as someone visually impaired who finds it extremely offensive when someone uses 'do you know how to read' as an insult i wont.

@Mycathatesmecuddling @Againstmachine
As I’ve said in my experience is it is really common when first looking at flexible working to focus on what you want and not considering anyone else.

My point was posters can point out the flaws in the OPs request without being unpleasant.

So not only do you want thwarting man to work the rubbish shift, you intend reporting the fact that staff sometimes leave early to his employer, thus likely having the benefit of the rubbish shift removed?

And you want to do this behind his back.

Can you really not see that this is incredibly selfish?

Just because I'm childless, it doesn't mean I deserve the crappy shifts at work and I shouldn't have to justify that. Sometimes I might have other meaningful things to be doing, other times I might want to watch A Place in the Sun in my pants all afternoon. My lifestyle is my choice, much like your children were yours.

You could decide and present a time limit to a rearrangement eg 6 months? If agreed it can give you a chance to see what is working out best for you. I get that you feel you need to have a clear arrangement for the childcare provision but a lot of unexpected stuff comes up when the babies are actually here.

I think you”ll find the reason you’re getting personal comments rather than suggestions on how to present your case to is because you are making personal and negative points towards the Co worker which surely in itself is not relevant to how you put your case to the boss. It doesn’t come over as neutral and focussed on only how to present the requested changes. It’s a bit vengeful sounding.

Your request would permanently affect the contract / working arrangements of another colleague.
Im amazed you think this is acceptable….just so you can save on nursery fees.
Has it occurred to you to consider others.

It was your choice to have children.
And yes I have twins plus another..so I have been through this.

That’s still not ok. It’s not ok to pick someone for your team and have one of the qualifiers being about wether they have dependents or not. It’s not ok for your colleague to move people to their team, with one of the qualifiers being that they don’t have dependents. If your company allows this, they are crap.

Theres no justification for it. Regardless of how you try and make seem like it’s entirely normal and every one does it.

There’s no statistics that shows someone with a child, pet or caring responsibilities makes a better employee. Despite you claiming there are.

I will say it again, it sounds like you are actually saying ‘people with dependents put up with more crap because they can’t just quit’.

I cannot believe what I am reading. If I was the manager I would be saying go look for a job with hours to suit you then. I cannot believe this entitled parenting all of a sudden that people with no children are expected to take the short straw to enhance the lives of people with children, bet you will expect hubby's colleague to cover his shifts too when he takes sick day due to the child as well.

Believe it. Most people do not discriminate whilst recruiting, certainly not knowingly although am sure unconscious bias remains, but you are actually boasting about your discriminatory processes.

You should consider implementing competency based interviews which should help remove the bias in selection. Your recruitment practices and other discriminatory actions in the workplace you have mentioned, such as preferential treatment for parents, are shocking and you are exposing your company to the risk of legal action.

DH works in two different shift patterns alternating weekly. One week 6-2pm, next week 9-5pm, then back to 6am.

What you describe as the 'late shift' is a normal working day to most people so the other guy might not be bothered in the slightest and possibly prefer not having to be at work at 6am.

I can't say I'm impressed by the way you have worded things but surely the obvious thing to do is for your husband to sound the guy out first, it might well not be the big deal your thinking it is.

I will say it again, it sounds like you are actually saying ‘people with dependents put up with more crap because they can’t just quit’.

That's been my experience of some employers both directly and in terms of what they say on social media. They're quite glad if they've got something locking you into employment, because it means you can't just say 'fuck this for a game of soldiers'. I've seen people saying that we need unemployment to be slightly higher, because then people will take whatever jobs are offered. I mean here's the thing, why not make jobs attractive in some way, and then people will be more likely to want to do them, and stay in them.

But no, apparently stick is better than carrot.

Surprised - iam shocked!! I have been recruiting and interviewing for twenty years - both within the company and from the outside.

I have never seen anyone state they have children or dependents in an application form and it has never come up in an interview. Never!!

buy I do recruit at a senior level - what type of interviews are you conducting? What questions do you ask?

again I really want to see the statistics you referred to in your first post. I am also a little taken aback by your insults to others when your spelling and grammar is so poor.

yes we all have unconscious bias. My employer trains us to recognise it - there is mandatory training for interviewing and people management. I can only assume this hasn’t been offered to you? Perhaps you have been promoted so frequently that you haven’t had time to be fully skilled at each level?

Op if you really want to put in a flexible working request. Don't just ask for all early shifts ask if this can't be accommodated that they considered a fixed weekly pattern to make it easier for you to arrange child care.

The employer can refuse flexible working requests on the basis it doesn't suit the companies needs and they have to give no reason. You can only submit one flexible working requests every 12 months so unless you include the alternative working pattern in your first request you will have to wait 12 months to submit another request. I have found most employers will stick to the letter of the law and use it in their favour if they can. So don't count on actually getting any request you ask for unless it won't disadvantage anyone else. As they will be unwilling to do that.

I cannot believe this entitled parenting all of a sudden that people with no children are expected to take the short straw to enhance the lives of people with children

Absolutely!!!

I used to work shifts, in the emergency services, I actually liked early turn. I didn't get up much earlier to get to work for 6 and as I lived a short walk away I was home by 2.10. Perhaps the other person is happy doing the shifts as they are, he can sort his life out so he can make plans, and those plans might involve caring for others. Even if that isn't the case, he might not be happy to be given little choice in having change forced on him. Sorry but you seem to be very entitled and assuming that others are pushovers and might not want to cooperate and have very good reason to want the status quo.

Wow!
How very self-entitled of you.

This post is a sad reminder that people like OP exist in the world.

This isn't about agreeing it directly between your partner and his colleague; it's for your employer to consider the request on the following basis (from ACAS website)
Your employer can turn down your flexible working request if there’s a valid business reason for doing so.
By law, your employer can turn down your flexible working request if:

• it will cost too much
• they cannot reorganise the work among other staff
• they cannot recruit more staff
• there will be a negative effect on quality
• there will be a negative effect on the business’ ability to meet customer demand
• there will be a negative effect on performance
• there’s not enough work for you to do when you’ve requested to work
• there are planned changes to the business, for example, your employer plans to reorganise or change the business and thinks the request will not fit with these plans

But the other reasons can come to play here too. Your husband has the right to request, but not the right to insist. Most employers (particularly if they are a large operation) will be willing to move things around but not at cost to the business. I would urge your partner not to make this personal with his colleague as it makes it difficult for both going forward. Leave it to his employer to see if it can be accommodated and, if it can't, you have to sort out the problem yourselves, don't point the finger at his colleague.

The irony of complaining of other people putting themselves first 😂😂😂

There is zero point even trying. No FW request should require a contractual change for someone else, unless consensual! They will all think you and DH are barking mad and incredibly self-centred.

The company can't force your DH's colleague to change his shifts just because they have received a FW request, and they won't even consider it. Your only option is for DH to ask his colleague nicely if he might be willing to consider doing the 9-5 shift on a permanent basis, which he may do as there are obviously pros and cons of both patterns. IF he said yes, DH and he go to the bosses with that as a potential option, and it would perhaps be hard then for the company to refuse.

I am a qualified employment lawyer, and have never come across anyone thinking along these lines, ever......

.

Personally, I'd be mortified being married to (or associated with) a man too cowardly to approach his peer in an attempt to better his family's circumstances.

What sort of creature is that??

I'm thinking weasel, but there may be more.

Yes our priority is our family and our finances

Oh yay, a family of entitled self-important people produce another generation to continue the family trait.

Great 🙄

That still doesn’t mean her needs are more than the other colleague.
He didn’t ask her to get pregnant, therefore he shouldn’t be impacted by her life choices.

And with regards to the inevitable ‘well I didn’t ask for twins’ argument, that’s a risk everyone knows when they try for a baby - it happens.

This! You having twins does not trump anyone else's wishes. This just about takes the cake for entitlement!!!!

@Deathbyfluffy at no point have I said the OPs request was reasonable nor have I said her needs trump her DHs colleague. What I have asked is people moderate their language when pointing out why her request is not reasonable.

@Aslanplustwo @Brefugee @Deathbyfluffy So help the op out what is a potential option that is fair to the OPs DH and his colleague?

I’ve stated mine - ask colleague to consider moving from a 2 week shift pattern to a weekly one where both do 2 earlies, 2 lates and on day 5 they rotate on a weekly basis. The op goes for a compressed 9 day fortnight with the NWD matching Day 5. This gives 3 out of 5 days when the op only needs 1/2 day nursery, both workers do the same number of earlies and lates.