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Original poster

DH's colleague thwarting flex working request

541 replies

mamabeeboo · 12/04/2023 15:23

Hi all

We are due twins in 8 weeks time, really excited/nervous/stressed, but trying to prepare as much as we can. 😁

DH works in two different shift patterns alternating weekly. One week 6-2pm, next week 9-5pm, then back to 6am.

The plan for the twins is for DH to submit a flexible working request, where he can do 6-2pm shift indefinitely. So we can keep nursery costs down by paying for half day for the twins until 1pm. I can take my lunch break until DH gets back. This works for us financially, for obvious reasons.

The flex working request means his colleague is stuck on the later shift, which is the "worse shift" since you don't have a free afternoon, you are stuck on your own finishing everything etc etc. No real reason other than it's a bit of an inconvenience.

Question - what do we need to be aware of when submitting a flexi working request? Is there anything we can explain on the request to make sure that feedback from colleague is not a reason for a no? Does management even have to share the request to colleagues to get some understanding on how this would be received? Ideally we would like to keep it confidential.

Of course manager will consider the impact on the team, but technically 'colleague doesn't like it' isn't a reason for a decline according to the gov website. But he can make life a bit difficult for DH and kick off quite a bit. He seems to be quite a rowdy person from the few times I have met him.

OP posts:
Stripedbag101 · 12/04/2023 23:29

Sorry - you are clearly making this up!! I am being an idiot to engage

Indi1906 · 12/04/2023 23:31

@Mycathatesmecuddling I wouldn’t worry too much about this one, clearly one of those managers who wants to be everyone’s friend and will be caught out eventually…

misssunshine4040 · 12/04/2023 23:50

mamabeeboo · 12/04/2023 15:23

Hi all

We are due twins in 8 weeks time, really excited/nervous/stressed, but trying to prepare as much as we can. 😁

DH works in two different shift patterns alternating weekly. One week 6-2pm, next week 9-5pm, then back to 6am.

The plan for the twins is for DH to submit a flexible working request, where he can do 6-2pm shift indefinitely. So we can keep nursery costs down by paying for half day for the twins until 1pm. I can take my lunch break until DH gets back. This works for us financially, for obvious reasons.

The flex working request means his colleague is stuck on the later shift, which is the "worse shift" since you don't have a free afternoon, you are stuck on your own finishing everything etc etc. No real reason other than it's a bit of an inconvenience.

Question - what do we need to be aware of when submitting a flexi working request? Is there anything we can explain on the request to make sure that feedback from colleague is not a reason for a no? Does management even have to share the request to colleagues to get some understanding on how this would be received? Ideally we would like to keep it confidential.

Of course manager will consider the impact on the team, but technically 'colleague doesn't like it' isn't a reason for a decline according to the gov website. But he can make life a bit difficult for DH and kick off quite a bit. He seems to be quite a rowdy person from the few times I have met him.

Wow, if I was stuck on the late shift indefinitely I would be pissed off.
Why do you think his colleague shouldn't be angry at this?
Very entitled.

OhcantthInkofaname · 12/04/2023 23:54

And what if the colleague needs to schedule for their child care needs? He knew what the schedule was when he took the job it's up to you to work around it.

knockyknees · 12/04/2023 23:55

It's always fascinating seeing OPs from the cheeky fucker's POV (assuming this is even true).

Foreversearch · 13/04/2023 01:52

@mamabeeboo I have read your posts but not waded through all of the responses.

It is not reasonable to expect your DHs colleague to do lates. There are some options that could help you out.

Your DH should talk to his colleague and sound him out about possibly changing their shift pattern. For example:

  • Mondays DH does earlies and colleague does lates. Most BH fall on a Monday so you are only spending 1/2 day on childcare on Mondays.
  • Tuesdays and Thursdays colleague does earlies DH does lates
  • Wednesday DH does earlies colleague does lates
  • Friday alternate so one week DH does earlies the next week colleague does earlies.
  • You ask to work a 9 day fortnight with Friday as NWD. The Friday coincides with DH’s late shift.

This gives you 3 days where you only need 1/2 day child care and every other week you get a few hours breathing time when DC are at nursery. This is just an example, play about with the days but it may appeal to your DH’s colleague. Get them on board and then submit flexible working request.

Againstmachine · 13/04/2023 06:57

Blimey thread took a turn some really shitty managers have turned up too.

Coffeepot72 · 13/04/2023 07:16

So obviously it’s very unfair that parents should get better shifts than non-parents, but (sorry to sound dense) can you realistically challenge this, I know it’s wrong but is it illegal and discriminatory? We have something slightly similar brewing at my workplace

TheClitterati · 13/04/2023 07:19

Sorry but if I was the folkes organ would be a hard no from me. You would be dramatically affecting their life.

TheClitterati · 13/04/2023 07:34

Folkes organ = colleague ( strange auto correct there).

Can you ask for flexible working? Can you not change your hours on the weeks your H works 9-5?

Mycathatesmecuddling · 13/04/2023 09:09

Indi1906 · 12/04/2023 23:31

@Mycathatesmecuddling I wouldn’t worry too much about this one, clearly one of those managers who wants to be everyone’s friend and will be caught out eventually…

Thanks, honestly I sometimes wonder if the people who call themselves managers on MN and then come out with shit like this have ever even managed their way out of a paper bag to be so clueless

Mycathatesmecuddling · 13/04/2023 09:10

SweetSakura · 12/04/2023 23:27

Some people should definitely not be allowed to be managers should they!

I have a wonderful mix in my team from young professionals, young parents, grand parents, all sorts. They all bring different qualities and have different pressures outside work

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Well exactly, our team ranges from an 18 year old through to someone close to retirement. It would be a very dull workplace if we were all at the same point in life

Mycathatesmecuddling · 13/04/2023 09:20

Mumwomansisterdaughter · 12/04/2023 23:15

I also allow a team member to have a 2 hour lunch time so she is with her dogs , one to have a fixed 2 days a month off to visit her ill mother and one to work from home with her baby with her and let one have 5 weeks leave in one go . When you are flexible to everyone , nobody feels they are loosing . We close the week of Christmas , it’s actually the only time I feel we discriminate since 2 of my team are Muslim and are obligated to not work ( company policy completely out of my control ) .
Of course I’m human and not 100% unbiased , as a example , I prefer my team to all have dependent , altough it’s not my main priority when recruiting , because over the years I find those with a family are more stable as employees .
Anyway , thankfully I think we never had any issues with each other and we are very good at having each others backs if needed .
Remember not discriminating doesn’t always mean doing the exact same thing for everyone , means giving everyone the same chances even if it means different things to every individual.

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Just a last point on this post about how you are a bad manager

People with disabilities are less likely to have children statistically speaking. So congratulations on your disability discrimination. What a delightful manager you are 🙄

Cc1998 · 13/04/2023 09:26

Mycathatesmecuddling · 13/04/2023 09:20

Just a last point on this post about how you are a bad manager

People with disabilities are less likely to have children statistically speaking. So congratulations on your disability discrimination. What a delightful manager you are 🙄

Show quote history

I struggle to believe that person is actually a manager, I think they've just come to stir trouble tbh 😂

Mycathatesmecuddling · 13/04/2023 09:40

Cc1998 · 13/04/2023 09:26

I struggle to believe that person is actually a manager, I think they've just come to stir trouble tbh 😂

Show quote history

On one hand you are probably right, on the other hand as a disabled woman I have met some incredibly awful managers so there is a little bit of me that can believe those shitty posts

Trez1510 · 13/04/2023 12:59

Foreversearch · 13/04/2023 01:52

@mamabeeboo I have read your posts but not waded through all of the responses.

It is not reasonable to expect your DHs colleague to do lates. There are some options that could help you out.

Your DH should talk to his colleague and sound him out about possibly changing their shift pattern. For example:

  • Mondays DH does earlies and colleague does lates. Most BH fall on a Monday so you are only spending 1/2 day on childcare on Mondays.
  • Tuesdays and Thursdays colleague does earlies DH does lates
  • Wednesday DH does earlies colleague does lates
  • Friday alternate so one week DH does earlies the next week colleague does earlies.
  • You ask to work a 9 day fortnight with Friday as NWD. The Friday coincides with DH’s late shift.

This gives you 3 days where you only need 1/2 day child care and every other week you get a few hours breathing time when DC are at nursery. This is just an example, play about with the days but it may appeal to your DH’s colleague. Get them on board and then submit flexible working request.

Fabulous, but the bottom line is OPs demands still require a change in the contracted hours of someone who (like the majority of us) gives less than one flying fuck about her childcare costs. Nor is he likely to agree to having his own life / routines fucked up for OPs convenience.

Also, as an aside, I cannot see any employer being happy to have their operation (whatever that is) uncovererd on a regular basis at the end of the business week. So, for business purposes, it's most likely they will require whomever is working alternate Fridays, i.e. the thwarty colleague, to cover late shift. However, he's already covering late shift on the other Fridays to accommodate OPs child care costs.

Foreversearch · 13/04/2023 13:26

Trez1510 · 13/04/2023 12:59

Fabulous, but the bottom line is OPs demands still require a change in the contracted hours of someone who (like the majority of us) gives less than one flying fuck about her childcare costs. Nor is he likely to agree to having his own life / routines fucked up for OPs convenience.

Also, as an aside, I cannot see any employer being happy to have their operation (whatever that is) uncovererd on a regular basis at the end of the business week. So, for business purposes, it's most likely they will require whomever is working alternate Fridays, i.e. the thwarty colleague, to cover late shift. However, he's already covering late shift on the other Fridays to accommodate OPs child care costs.

Show quote history

@Trez1510 I agree the colleague doesn’t have to change but equally a conversation costs nothing and the worst outcome is colleague says no. If I was the colleague I would ask for earlies every Friday. That might be the sacrifice op has to make to get a working pattern that allows them to reduce child care costs.

I was experienced at negotiating flexible working patterns that met business needs and also met employees needs. Most employees and managers are very rigid in what they want and often setting out a range of alternatives yielded a win win outcome.

TBF to the op in my experience most employees who want flexible working only think about what they want and forget colleagues and the business may not want the same thing.

labamba007 · 13/04/2023 13:39

I suppose if I were the manager I would have a separate conversation with the other colleague and if they, understandably, refused then it would be a no.

I don't think there's much you can do with the application to make it better.

Would your husband consider a pay cut and which could be passed on to the colleague for working the less attractive shift? Just one idea!

CommanderSeven · 13/04/2023 14:15

I made a suggestion about OP and her partner each doing compressed hours.

He does 3 days 6-5 if reasonable and safe, so being paid for 30 hours, dropping 5 but then off 2 days.

OP asks for compressed hours over 4 days.

Childcare only needed for 2 days

No change to shift pattern of colleague.

Could this work? Might also be easier and cheaper to find a nursery!

CommanderSeven · 13/04/2023 14:18

Mycathatesmecuddling · 12/04/2023 23:17

I prefer my team to all have dependent , altough it’s not my main priority when recruiting , because over the years I find those with a family are more stable as employees .

What the actual fuck?

please explain how my uterus not working makes me a less stable employee?

In the example "dependents" included pets and other family members.

I'm sorry for your particular situation. My guess is that someone else could be considered your dependent.

Trez1510 · 13/04/2023 14:20

Foreversearch · 13/04/2023 13:26

@Trez1510 I agree the colleague doesn’t have to change but equally a conversation costs nothing and the worst outcome is colleague says no. If I was the colleague I would ask for earlies every Friday. That might be the sacrifice op has to make to get a working pattern that allows them to reduce child care costs.

I was experienced at negotiating flexible working patterns that met business needs and also met employees needs. Most employees and managers are very rigid in what they want and often setting out a range of alternatives yielded a win win outcome.

TBF to the op in my experience most employees who want flexible working only think about what they want and forget colleagues and the business may not want the same thing.

Show quote history

@Foreversearch

Absolutely! Before I retired, I spent many years as a manager. The first few requests for flexi contracts sailed through because everyone else was available to cover the workload in their absence. However, people then started jumping on the bandwagon where everyone wanted a slightly later start/earlier finish to accommodate the school run. Then everyone wanted Fridays off. They had less than zero concern for their colleagues whose workload increased during those busy times whilst seeing their ability to have a slightly later start / earlier finish or Friday off on occasion 'thwarted' by people knitting their own contracted hours to suit themselves.

Towards the end of my career, it was becoming a regular occurence for applicants attempting blackmail with 'I'll just resign if I don't get what I want!!' They never did.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 13/04/2023 14:29

CommanderSeven · 13/04/2023 14:18

In the example "dependents" included pets and other family members.

I'm sorry for your particular situation. My guess is that someone else could be considered your dependent.

Show quote history

Well unless she is only weeding out orphans without pets I very much doubt it

I don't need to have a dependant to be good at my job and the inference that someone without a family is a bad employee is quite frankly insulting so I find it wierd that's a post you are willing to defend

CommanderSeven · 13/04/2023 14:39

I can't seem to quote a post that contains a quote - but others can. Why is that?

Anyway @Mycathatesmecuddling it wasn't so much I was defending the post, I just saw that the example given (and I haven't seen other posts by that person - will filter and read them all in context) seemed to suggest that the poster didn't only consider children as dependents and had a wider concept of that - which is a good thing. Not a bad thing.

Everyone should have a wider understanding of what a dependent could be. It would make it much easier for single people to gain valuable time off - especially as they always seem to get the raw end of the deal.

The way that poster wrote about things is actually the opposite way that employment used to be handled with a preference for single people. Usually white and usually men!

That PP has flipped that bias on the head (and developed a new bias!)

Mycathatesmecuddling · 13/04/2023 14:48

CommanderSeven · 13/04/2023 14:39

I can't seem to quote a post that contains a quote - but others can. Why is that?

Anyway @Mycathatesmecuddling it wasn't so much I was defending the post, I just saw that the example given (and I haven't seen other posts by that person - will filter and read them all in context) seemed to suggest that the poster didn't only consider children as dependents and had a wider concept of that - which is a good thing. Not a bad thing.

Everyone should have a wider understanding of what a dependent could be. It would make it much easier for single people to gain valuable time off - especially as they always seem to get the raw end of the deal.

The way that poster wrote about things is actually the opposite way that employment used to be handled with a preference for single people. Usually white and usually men!

That PP has flipped that bias on the head (and developed a new bias!)

This poster had already said they give parents priority over non parents in other circumstances

I'm not dumb, I know what she meant. I wasn't the only person to disagree with her posts so I'm not sure why I am the only one who has supposedly misread it and she's actually being kind to people like me 🙄

Effieswig · 13/04/2023 15:05

CommanderSeven · 13/04/2023 14:39

I can't seem to quote a post that contains a quote - but others can. Why is that?

Anyway @Mycathatesmecuddling it wasn't so much I was defending the post, I just saw that the example given (and I haven't seen other posts by that person - will filter and read them all in context) seemed to suggest that the poster didn't only consider children as dependents and had a wider concept of that - which is a good thing. Not a bad thing.

Everyone should have a wider understanding of what a dependent could be. It would make it much easier for single people to gain valuable time off - especially as they always seem to get the raw end of the deal.

The way that poster wrote about things is actually the opposite way that employment used to be handled with a preference for single people. Usually white and usually men!

That PP has flipped that bias on the head (and developed a new bias!)

How do you suppose the op finds out if someone has dependents or not. What leasing questions could you ask without being discriminatory?

If I have adult kids, no pets and my dad is fit and healthy, I don’t have dependents. How would that make me better at my job? Or more committed.

The comment actually made me think the Pp wants people with dependents because they are less likely to leave. That’s a huge red flag in a manager.

As well as the fact that they are quite willing to discriminate in several ways, suggests they shouldn’t be managing or recruiting at all