DH's colleague thwarting flex working request

[mamabeeboo]

Hi all

We are due twins in 8 weeks time, really excited/nervous/stressed, but trying to prepare as much as we can. 😁

DH works in two different shift patterns alternating weekly. One week 6-2pm, next week 9-5pm, then back to 6am.

The plan for the twins is for DH to submit a flexible working request, where he can do 6-2pm shift indefinitely. So we can keep nursery costs down by paying for half day for the twins until 1pm. I can take my lunch break until DH gets back. This works for us financially, for obvious reasons.

The flex working request means his colleague is stuck on the later shift, which is the "worse shift" since you don't have a free afternoon, you are stuck on your own finishing everything etc etc. No real reason other than it's a bit of an inconvenience.

Question - what do we need to be aware of when submitting a flexi working request? Is there anything we can explain on the request to make sure that feedback from colleague is not a reason for a no? Does management even have to share the request to colleagues to get some understanding on how this would be received? Ideally we would like to keep it confidential.

Of course manager will consider the impact on the team, but technically 'colleague doesn't like it' isn't a reason for a decline according to the gov website. But he can make life a bit difficult for DH and kick off quite a bit. He seems to be quite a rowdy person from the few times I have met him.

How do you suppose the op finds out if someone has dependents or not. What leasing questions could you ask without being discriminatory?

That's just part of the poster's magical management skills.

You’re trying to dictate your husband’s colleague’s work schedule as if it is your God given right to do so. No it’s not! And, you’re trying to dictate your husband’s work schedule AND telling him he has to QUIT his niche job if he doesn’t procure your demands.

Why don’t you change things on your end? Do you work from home? Why don’t you cut back your hours, why don’t you work late at night after h comes home? You don’t mention hardly anything about your side of things. So if you come on here and drip feed that you make 10x more than him or you’re developing a scientific breakthrough that will save millions of lives, then that’s a bit unfair on us. Even if it’s something dramatic like that, you still have no right to dictate other people’s lives and livelihoods to suit yourself.

Why is your job and hours and schedule and life sacrosanct but others are to do your bidding? You still don’t get it after everybody’s telling you. You are very unethical and self serving.

Dependents doesn’t mean children only , can mean a partner or any other person dependent on them financially . It makes people more motivated . Have you ever worked with single 21 year olds that just graduated ? I have , their responsibilities and therefore their reliability is much less than one with actually others depending on them .

You said you want to know how to get your h’s management to ignore and not listen to colleague’s possible objections to essentially being forced to take worse shift, in deference to your demands. Outrageous. You deserve zero power over others. “This isn’t an aibu, I’m asking you how I can get h’s colleague to be forced to take worse hours and for management to automatically dismiss his concerns and objections. So I can get what I want.” 🙄

“Why is your job and hours and schedule and life sacrosanct but others are to do your bidding? You still don’t get it after everybody’s telling you. You are very unethical and self serving.”

I think that’s pretty unfair - OP will be picking up the kids in her lunch break, for one thing, and sorting all the drop offs if her H always does the early shift.

this is just a pile on now, so I’m out.

With all due respect ( which is not a lot after your silly assumption ) I work with specific professionals that I can assure you all know the laws very well ) , Including 1 disabled , I’m also a mum to a adult disabled so your assumption is ridiculous, as I already replied , dependent’s doesn’t mean children , means someone that depends on others , might be a partner , their parents etc . That’s because having more responsibilities means also being more reliable and eager to progress ( there are countless statistics on this ) .
oh and I’ve been promoted 6 times within my company in 11 years . I know I do my job very well , and certainly do not need anyone on MN to tell me that .

You may "know the laws very well" but you don't know the difference between correlation and cause-and-effect.

Yes I have we regularly take on 18 year old apprentices and young graduates and quite frankly I find them to be great, very bright, very enthusiastic, hard working and committed

Maybe it's your management style

either way your ageism is showing

Good to know I either need to be in a relationship or get my uterus working in order to be employed by you though 🙄

I have never come across any studies which conclude that having dependents makes an employee more ambitious and reliable.

I have found opposite to be true, parents and carers have much more domestic emergencies and need more flexibility. It is inevitable that parents will often have sick children, doctor’s appointments etc. can’t be helped and I am as supportive as I can be. I have also heard caring responsibilities used as a reason not to seek promotion many times (which is of course a valid person choice)

can you give a link to some of the studies you have read please? I am fascinated - and a bit of a geek!

being promoted six times in such a short period of time is impressive and you must now be very senior in your organisation having joined in a relatively junior position. so you are clearly doing something right. But your approach to HR would not be tolerated in my place to work.

Do you have an HR team, and if so how do they work having dependents into the assessment process to join your team?

i work on a large organisation. - we are given no personal details on applicants - just their work history and qualifications. You aren’t allowed to ask if someone has children - and I would never dream of doing so. So how do you establish this?

I'm reminded of a new parent group which I used to hold as part of a baby care network.

I had a very varied group once. A baby that wouldn't take a teat for formula, cleft palate, a mum widowed whilst pregnant... you get the picture.
A mum of twins kept top trumping anyone's problems by saying ' yeah well I've got that twice' or ' you need to experience it twice to know how hard it is for me.'

Other mums clammed up . It was embarrassing. The truth of the matter was that she'd asked her mum to move in with her and employed a team of nannies.

You're having twins and it's going to be harder for you but you cannot expect others to shift their work patterns and, consequently, their private life to accommodate your needs.

Well you just admitted to clear age discrimination so you clearly don't know your job or the law very well

Just out of interest how do you find out if your interviewees have dependants when handpicking your team?

Or do you just assume all 21 year old graduates aren't parents and don't have parents or partners?

Pretty much this.

Decades of managerial experience taught me those without dependents tended, on average, to be more reliable/dedicated to their jobs than those with dependents (of any sort).

Whenever I caught anyone 'clock-watching' it was invariably someone with dependents.

Also, the term 'presenteeism' was formed for a reason.

I'm still waiting for the "countless statistics" that prove the poster's point.

There is no way no to submit it and as it would breach his colleagues contract they cannot approve it.

Oh so I'm having kids and therefore everyone else's life has to revolve around my wants and what works for me financially (and I say this as a Mum of twins) - so now your husbands colleague has to forego ever having an afternoon off again..... and maybe miss having social plans - hobbies - etc and you're on here asking for advice on how to request it so they can't say no!!!! Really??? I'd have two words for you - jog on!! You chose to have kids and you should have thought about the financial impact on your lives and not how you can transfer that back on someone else by wrecking their work life balance !!! What horse did you ride in on? Are you also going to ask people in cafe's to keep it down because your babies are sleeping? Honestly what is the world coming to?

Unbelievable

Absolute rubbish I work with young people I work with people with dependents, and I work with people who are childless are they have grown up.

Do you know who needs randol time off most of time the ones with kids, you can pretend it isn't but it is.

See your argument doesn't look so pretty now as I aren't towing your line.

Most people aren't calling you a rubbish manager your posts are doing that for you, as you actively discriminate against people which is pretty foul.

You can submit it, but I'd be fairly sure they'll say no.

Reasons for rejecting a FWR include:

• extra costs that will damage the business
• the work cannot be reorganised among other staff
• people cannot be recruited to do the work

As PPs have said, if I were the other employee I'd want compensating for worse shifts, so the first point might apply. I might also say I couldn't be available for all of those shifts, making the second point apply. I might hand in my notice because I don't want to get stuck with shitter shifts because of someone else, making the third point a potential as it sounds quite niche.

And if I'm honest, even if none of the above did technically apply, I'd imagine they'd say no on one of those grounds anyway but the real reason being that it's unfair (yes, I know that wouldn't be legitimate, but I could imagine it happening).

That just sounds like ‘we can get away with treating them poorly because they have people depending on them and more likely to stay out of necessity’

Your post also shows you are ageist.

As a manager and someone who has submitted a fw request there are a few things at play here.

Firstly, if the request is granted then this will potentially breach the contractual terms of the other colleague, who may have recourse to a tribunal.

If your husband leaves his job then there is no guarantee of a new job with the hours he wants.

You are 8 weeks from delivering your twins, I don't think you are playing fair in waiting so long to think about the request considering its not submitted as yet.

I would prepare yourself for disappointment as looking at the teams I manage, one of whom does shifts across 4 people, I fail to see how this coukd fairly be achieved.

Is the colleague “difficult and rowdy” OP, or is he just wise to yours and your DH’s entitled-as-fuck attitude and a bit sick of it?

The fact that you want the colleague to be circumvented, despite the fact that it impacts on him significantly, says quite a lot about you as a person and none of it is good

Correct that it isn’t a reason to decline your request but if the request does not suit the needs of the business (eg another colleague potentially leaving because they’re stuck with all late shifts which is impacting his/her life) then they can decline.

to be honest I think you sound super selfish. You knew when you had kids you would have to pay for nursery. Appreciate that you couldn’t anticipate having twins. But if yours husbands hours don’t work for you, perhaps you should try looking for a job that does.

I think the 2/3 day shift preference is the most reasonable request. You wanting to dodge childcare fees won’t be seen as a priority for the business. Doesn’t UC pay for childcare costs anyway?

You are really wondering why you got the response you did. Now go back and read your first post and imagine that the colleague you are talking about is your husband instead, you utter delight! 😂

I think all you can do is lay out why your husband needs to be on the permanent early shift and hope for the best, I don't think there is anything you can do or say to guarantee the outcome that you want.

I know 'colleague doesn't like it' isn't a reason, but they won't say yes to your husband and then inform his colleague that he will no longer be working 6-2, they will ask the colleague if this is do-able first, as they can't force someone to change shifts for someone else, it could be worth asking if anyone else wants to work opposite your husband who maybe more agreeable to the change.

I saw you mentioned nursery wait lists too - I would put the twins in the list, then when they get a place you can always decline it if you don't need it when it comes around, that way you're covered either way.