DH's colleague thwarting flex working request

[mamabeeboo]

Hi all

We are due twins in 8 weeks time, really excited/nervous/stressed, but trying to prepare as much as we can. 😁

DH works in two different shift patterns alternating weekly. One week 6-2pm, next week 9-5pm, then back to 6am.

The plan for the twins is for DH to submit a flexible working request, where he can do 6-2pm shift indefinitely. So we can keep nursery costs down by paying for half day for the twins until 1pm. I can take my lunch break until DH gets back. This works for us financially, for obvious reasons.

The flex working request means his colleague is stuck on the later shift, which is the "worse shift" since you don't have a free afternoon, you are stuck on your own finishing everything etc etc. No real reason other than it's a bit of an inconvenience.

Question - what do we need to be aware of when submitting a flexi working request? Is there anything we can explain on the request to make sure that feedback from colleague is not a reason for a no? Does management even have to share the request to colleagues to get some understanding on how this would be received? Ideally we would like to keep it confidential.

Of course manager will consider the impact on the team, but technically 'colleague doesn't like it' isn't a reason for a decline according to the gov website. But he can make life a bit difficult for DH and kick off quite a bit. He seems to be quite a rowdy person from the few times I have met him.

It gets worse
.

You speak as though you are a director of the company. Who on earth do you think you are by suggesting shift changes?

Does the boss have any input? It seems not.

If I was you I'd perhaps list a few options that would work.
A) what you suggested.
B) perhaps a condensed shift pattern where each person works 3 days in a row or day on day off of 6am to 5pm.
C) your husband does some sort of split shift and you rearrange your own working pattern slightly to accomodate?

In my opinion option B is more likely to work out better for the other stagg member and also for you childcare wise. Half day fees generally aren't half the full day rate and would be much harder to come by as your babies will be taking up 2 spaces every day and a few afternoon hours isn't going to suit many others so it would be a lucky strike to find a shared place never mind two shared places. It would however be much easier to find 3 full day places. Especially if you could manage to set the days!

I don’t normally do this but please would those posters making harsh comments stop and think.

The op is heavily pregnant with twins, she is worried how the unexpected extra baby will impact the family finances and their lives. Like most mothers of multiple births it can be a wonderful but terrifying surprise. It is no wonder the op has initially come up with a solution that meets her family’s needs without thinking about the impact on her DH’s colleagues.

FYI I previously worked for an organisation with c12,000 staff and c3,000 worked part time. I was responsible for the flexible and family friendly policies and guiding managers on their application.

In my experience most employees work out what they want (not need) and present it as I am going to do xyz and expect it to be granted. Working with them and their managers it is usually possible to establish what they need and what the business and colleagues support.

It’s fine to say not workable to the op and to offer suggestions but please hold back on the unpleasant comments and bear in mind the op is heavily pregnant with twins with all that that entails.

You are ridiculous! Just because you obviously seem to not have much success at work doesn’t men others don’t . None of what I said is unusual . People pick people to work for all sorts of reasons . For years companies picked men over women as they don’t want to pay maternity leave , I have other colleagues who contrary to me prefer those without children due to possible childcare issues and missing work . Honestly I do not believe people will ever be truly unbiased . Would I pick someone based on them being married over someone else’s qualifications or aptitude , no , absolutely not . Will I probably pick someone who I think it’s more suitable for our team based on the sort of person they are , including having dependents or being someone I consider reliable , yes I will . If that makes me that awful for you then be it . But I do not believe a single person recruiting or picking team members doesn’t do the same .

@Mumwomansisterdaughter I pick the right person for the job and then work out the rest. Some of the best staff I have had were working mums who knew how to prioritise and get the job done.

@Foreversearch op is quite happy though to plan to secretly fuck over the colleague and make their life shit, or kick off in a strop if everyone else doesn't bow to her superior twin mummy status... (and saying this as someone who has just given birth so know how hard it is!)

This is joke right? Husband gets easy shifts and colleague gets the crap. Indefinitely. Why? Because you’ve got kids? So what? You don’t want to pay for childminding? Welcome to the world. I’ve got 4 kids and have never even considered colleagues having to pick up the slack for that. Just wow! Not serious surely?

You aren’t talking unconscious bias.

You are talking discrimination. You can also be guilty of discrimination even if it was conscious.

Men getting employed over women due to the fact that they are men, does happen. Happens now. It’s also discrimination. That doesn’t make it ok for you to do the same.

It also doesn’t make it ok to discriminate, because someone you know also discriminates.

No one gives a shit if you have been promoted. If this is open practice at your place of employment, I wouldn’t say being promoted is an achievement in all honesty. It’s really odd you assume other people can’t possibly do well in their careers, if they disagree with you and point out facts. It’s discriminatory, that’s a fact.

Again, can you back up your statistics. And how do you find out people have dependents?

What about 21 year old that just graduated. But is also a carer of their parent? Where do they fall in discriminatory recruitment practices?

I can assure you. Many people do not do the same and in fact go out of their way to ensure they don’t even ask questions, that could be seen as trying to lead a candidate into revealing such information during the recruitment process.

I am not in any way assuming that I am more successful than you. I have only had four promotions in twenty years! That took me to director level - two more would have me running the company, which I don’t think will happen!!

you stated there is evidence to back up your claims - and are now unable to provide that. That combined with your chaotic communication style does make me question your seniority and reasoning ability.

all the best though. I am sure the six promotions will help you though the inevitable industrial tribunals!

But some advice - stay close to HR and never put any of your views in writing. You will

So with your ‘don’t ask don’t get’ mentality, coupled with ‘Me and mine come first’ if the answer is yes, because you’re pushy and entitled then you don’t care at all that colleague has to completely change his work life balance and take the less popular shift to accommodate your will. Really? And that’s ok? Wow.

I always pick the right person for the job but as you say some groups seem to work better than others . 2 of my best colleagues , one is still a team worker where single mums ( as I was for 13 years ) , they both have such motivation and just get things done no matter what . Over the years all these little “ things we notice “ end up probably making us biased . This is not to say I will not work with a single men or woman , I have both on my team at present too but I seem to find certain characteristics in specific groups .
Anyway the point I was trying to make was that doing the same to every worker is not always the best or what that person actually wants . I do my best to accommodate requests being that it’s childcare issues or pet issues or other personal commitments without making other team members feel used or that it’s unfair . I personally would not accommodate the OP wishes unless someone agreed to do it .

You'll also need to check the nursery's policies on half days - most prefer to have full time children, as it's easier than trying to find someone to fill the spaces (would there be a demand for afternoon only places?) - so they might not let you book half days. Also many nurseries charge something like 75 percent of the full day rate for a half day, so it's not necessarily going to make enough difference to you financially. If you both moved to a four day week (either dropping an hour or picking up an extra hour a day for four days so it's more like 4.5 days, then that would say you two days nursery fees which would have more impact.

Can posters like this stop and think, the OP decided to post and decided to override any cares about anyone else.

You make your bed you lie in it you don't expect random people to make changes to suit you.

Your interviews must be intense. Somehow you manage to work out the candidates age, their marital or relationship status, whether their partner or parents are dependent on them, whether or not they have pets and still have time left I presume to work out whether they can actually do the job or not

I mean most of these questions would be considered illegal, given then can be used by people to discriminate, but somehow you are managing.

What happens when someone gets divorced or splits up from their partner, do they get shunted off into another team because they are no longer one of the chosen few

Studies show that diversity in teams improves performance and creativity, but I guess that's not your priority in your age, relationship status, infertility and disability discrimination interview practices

Bloody hell, how selfish can you get?

Does being pregnant with twins automatically give you a free pass to selfishness. I mean that would explain some MN threads over the years!

If I was asked to permanently change working hours by my employer for someone else's convenience I'd be straight onto my union representative.

Every man for himself eh??

You’ve literally asked how you can get the request worded in such a way that this other colleague’s feelings on the matter count for nothing. So you want your financial situation to be the sole consideration for your DH’s employer? You want your feelings to count for everything and the other person’s to preferably not count at all.?

If you just put in the request to see what happens on the off chance then that would be one thing. But you haven’t worded it like that. You want your request to be worded in such a way that this colleague’s feelings don’t count. You don’t actually want this colleague to be consulted or to know about the request (which he would have to know about if he were being consulted surely?!) So you just want the employer to grant it and announce it to the other colleague as a fait accompli? You accuse this colleague (who is completely in the dark and not worth consulting) as “thwarting” your underhand attempts. Something they could not possibly do without having knowledge!!! And then say your DH will just leave and everyone will be fucked as his skills are pretty specialised. In fact you sound pretty smug when you say this colleague can then have all the shifts he wants!

Your attitude is appalling!

Most of my tema has come from other teams already at the company , on occasion we recruit from outside and I would never dream about asking any of those questions but you would be surprised how much people say in a interview or their applications . Re read all of my posts and stop exaggerating what I meant . You know fully well that bias happens in all segments of our life’s .

Your DH should talk to the colleague about it. Maybe he likes the later shift (I wouldn’t blame I him, the late shift finishes at 5 so it’s not like he’s missing out on a normal work pattern, and starting at 6 sucks). If they come to an agreement it’s more likely to be accepted by management as the colleague will need to agree to a contractual change in hours.

The whole childcare thing though. Personally I don’t know of nurseries that do half days though maybe it’s a thing. And childminders won’t want to give up one of their places for a baby who is there only a few hours, they will want to hold out for longer hours.

I don't need to re read your posts, and I'm not exaggerating although I think you are underestimating your biases

We may all have biases but some of us actively try to minimise them where as you are actively giving yours free rein

I've been interviewing for years. I've done 12 interviews in the past month (for 3 different teams) and whilst I might have a rough idea of age I have no idea of relationship status, if they have children, pets or other dependants

I'm interviewing on their ability to do the job not their reproductive abilities or whether their parents are still alive

9-5 isn't so bad. As 'not a morning person' I'd probably prefer it. But maybe the colleague has family needs of his own, likes the odd afternoon early finish. You can ask but it's not the job of the colleague to make accommodations for your family wants. A fixed shift roster might be welcome with set shifts, 2-3 days on different shifts.

I know care is expensive. I stayed home when I had three preschoolers. Now that mine are grown, I wouldn't accept a shift roster that interfered with my best life to accommodate someone else's childcare wants. My needs and wants matter too. I had to work it out when I had three preschoolers. You will too.

Do you know how to read 80% of my team are already working with us , off course I know a bit about them over the years , I have worked with some of them in other roles before too . I would need to be really uninterested to not know anything about them , as they know about me , I’m sure , I’ve been to some of their weddings , kids christenings etc . I do not do first stage interviews just to be a bit more clear , even when we recruit juniors , I only recruit the ones already accepted but that I think are a fit at my team , so normally I already had some sort of feedback . Hope that maybe that answered some of your questions