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Original poster

Said something 'offensive' about sex/gender at work, meeting on Wednesday. Hand hold and advice needed.

510 replies

Grubble · 03/04/2023 11:46

I've NC and I'm going to change some minor details to avoid outing.

I hope this is the right place to post - I'm after help about the work/employment issues I'm facing, rather than anything to do with the sex/gender debate.

Here goes:
I do MMA and am 'senior level'. The gym I train at is mostly men. Men and women don't spar together. There are only two other 'senior' women at my gym that I can spar with. If we find a class that two of us will be at, we'll both agree to definitely get to that class so we get chance to spar.

Last week, I declined an evening event at work because I'd booked a sparring session with one of these women.

A colleague asked me why I wasn't going to the event. I explained. As I was explaining I said "Obviously men and women don't spar with each other so when there's a chance for me to spar with one of the senior women, I take it".

A couple of other colleagues were standing around and heard the conversation. One of them said "Why obviously?" and I answered - men are bigger, men are heavier, men's bodies are shaped/composed differently, there's lots of holding/grabbing, men can't fully throw themselves into sparring with women so its a bit of a waste of time for them, and ultimately its just gym policy anyway.

Today I've received an email from HR asking me to attend a meeting on Wednesday about 'offensive comments' I made last week. I've followed HR up this morning and they've told me that my 'offensive comments' were about my explanation of men/women not sparring with each other.

The lady in HR said its likely to be a informal chat to identify why my comments were offensive and to 'find a way through' (her exact words). She said it didn't look like there'd be any question of formal disciplinary action.

So, basically I've been summoned to a bollocking.

I've worked here 9 years and have an impeccable record. I've never been told off or had any sort of HR intervention before. So I'm not sure what to do or what to expect. I'm not in a union.

I wonder if anyone has any advice on the situation. What should I expect on Wednesday? How should I handle it? I'm completely clueless. Thank you!

TLDR: Been summoned for a bollocking on Wednesday because I told colleagues why men/women don't spar together at my MMA gym. What should I do?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
StarDolphins · 03/04/2023 12:21

Absolutely ridiculous madness, I would be fuming, to actually go to the trouble of not only being offended but reporting it🙄

uhtredbebbanburg · 03/04/2023 12:22

Totally ridiculous!! Show them this thread. DH goes to a boxing gym with our 16 year old DD. It’s an inclusive gym in that women and girls are treated as equal members, not belittled etc. But none of the full grown experienced men would consider proper sparring with the women / girls though they coach them in technique etc.

Original poster
Grubble · 03/04/2023 12:23

Thank you, I'm looking at governing bodies as we speak.

I do wonder if it'll be a case of my believing in, and then repeating at work, the biological sex differences upon which the gym policy and governing bodies policies rest.

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StuckInTheUpsideDown · 03/04/2023 12:24

I would have to hand the rules of your association and your gym. No doubt the association rules will address men and women competing together.

This is not a trans issue so don’t let them make it one. if they bring up trans women I would look baffled and just say “this was not about trans men or trans women, I don’t understand why you’re bringing that up.” Don’t let them draw you into what you would say about that. If you have caused offence they need to specific how they think that happened. And not allude to things that you never said.

SunshineGeorgie · 03/04/2023 12:24

Maybe they just want your version of events before they proceed?

Housenoob · 03/04/2023 12:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lol, touché. But I am hearing of similar situations in real life.

Original poster
Grubble · 03/04/2023 12:25

uhtredbebbanburg · 03/04/2023 12:22

Totally ridiculous!! Show them this thread. DH goes to a boxing gym with our 16 year old DD. It’s an inclusive gym in that women and girls are treated as equal members, not belittled etc. But none of the full grown experienced men would consider proper sparring with the women / girls though they coach them in technique etc.

It's lovely that your DH and DD go boxing together 😍

This is exactly the approach where I train. Women and men are treated as equal but different.

OP posts:
Toomanybooks22 · 03/04/2023 12:26

I would write a statement of your recollection of what happened ahead of the meeting to refer to / read at the meeting and refer to any National policies / gym policies and / or procedures. Basically so you have more control over the narrative of the meeting. Also, I would call ACAS or seek legal advice if you can.

1983Louise · 03/04/2023 12:27

Someone asked you and you gave a very clear explanation plus it's gym policy. I can't understand why someone would ask in the first place tbh, we live in an increasingly silly world 🙄.

FoxtrotOscarFoxtrotOscar · 03/04/2023 12:28

And the next time some nosey CF asks why you're not attending an event, simply reply "it's private" or "I just can't" or "mind your own fucking business you CF".

Original poster
Grubble · 03/04/2023 12:29

FoxtrotOscarFoxtrotOscar · 03/04/2023 12:28

And the next time some nosey CF asks why you're not attending an event, simply reply "it's private" or "I just can't" or "mind your own fucking business you CF".

Well quite.

OP posts:
Original poster
Grubble · 03/04/2023 12:30

Toomanybooks22 · 03/04/2023 12:26

I would write a statement of your recollection of what happened ahead of the meeting to refer to / read at the meeting and refer to any National policies / gym policies and / or procedures. Basically so you have more control over the narrative of the meeting. Also, I would call ACAS or seek legal advice if you can.

That's great advice, thank you.

My head's a bit scrambled ATM but I will get my thoughts together tomorrow and get everything written down.

OP posts:
Coraline353 · 03/04/2023 12:30

Don't get drawn in. Just look at them quizzically and say that when you said 'its's obvious that they don't spar together' just say that it's obvious because in all sports men and women don't compete against each other!

FordCreek · 03/04/2023 12:32

If your work are “shit hot” on sex/gender then they’ll understand why your gym has this policy.

I have to say this post raised an eyebrow here too @discobrain

Whichnumbers · 03/04/2023 12:33

If they choose to take offence at the gym rules and the explanation of this said rules that not on you, you were asked the question and answered it comprehensively.

Or was it the "obviously" they took offence to as they didn't know and felt belittled for not knowing the rules?

Id go to the meeting and wait to hear what they have to say first, take a note pad and pen and take notes of what order they say and what they say

Pubesofsoberness · 03/04/2023 12:33

Coraline353 · 03/04/2023 12:30

Don't get drawn in. Just look at them quizzically and say that when you said 'its's obvious that they don't spar together' just say that it's obvious because in all sports men and women don't compete against each other!

This! And don't get drawn into any trans debates if they try and go down that road

Totally ridiculous

pikantna · 03/04/2023 12:34

Interesting timing

I'm sure there has been a lot mentioned in the news of late anyone having a conversation like this with HR could point to

rwalker · 03/04/2023 12:34

You’ve over explained in the other side of the coin is if a man said they wouldn’t spar as women are weaker than men no doubt he’d be hauled up for that
doubt it will go anywhere but if someone complained they have to follow it up

whynotwhatknot · 03/04/2023 12:34

sometimes i hate this country

theyve gone ott in bringing you in about this-i wouldnt want to fight a man full stop nothing to do with trans

Codlingmoths · 03/04/2023 12:35

Perhaps you can take someone? Perhaps a senior man at the gym would go along and explain he doesn’t want to spar with women? And since he’s a MAN, HR would listen and nod.

Jonei · 03/04/2023 12:36

Can you take legal representation in with you op? Start as you mean to go on.

OverCCCs · 03/04/2023 12:37

If it starts going downhill and you’re getting criticized for rightfully pointing out that it’s unsafe for men and women to spar together (hence why the sexes are separated in sports from the school years on!) I’d raise your concerns that it seems as if by their logic they must not be accounting for an individual’s physical capabilities and characteristics when conducting a risk assessment. Joe Blob can lift X amount so surely it must be safe for pregnant Sue to do the same if men and women are the same, after all. Is that how the company approaches all aspects of their roles that involves some sort of acknowledgement of one’s man or woman status?

coyoistadty · 03/04/2023 12:37

I don't understand what you said wrong

Mirabai · 03/04/2023 12:38

Trans track and swimming athletes who have gone through male puberty can no longer compete with women.

At the moment there are reputedly no trans who have applied to box competitively. But - most likely they will follow athletics and swimming.
Some boxing figures have threatened to resign if trans are allowed to box as their identified gender (eg Simon Block from the Commonwealth Boxing Council). It would be dangerous, basically.

Original poster
Grubble · 03/04/2023 12:39

FordCreek · 03/04/2023 12:32

If your work are “shit hot” on sex/gender then they’ll understand why your gym has this policy.

I have to say this post raised an eyebrow here too @discobrain

I mean they are shit-hot in the sense that they're incredibly quick to get potential issues in this area rolling. They are very responsive when it comes to this particular area but with very little substance or understanding behind it.

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