Said something 'offensive' about sex/gender at work, meeting on Wednesday. Hand hold and advice needed.

[Grubble]

I've NC and I'm going to change some minor details to avoid outing.

I hope this is the right place to post - I'm after help about the work/employment issues I'm facing, rather than anything to do with the sex/gender debate.

Here goes:
I do MMA and am 'senior level'. The gym I train at is mostly men. Men and women don't spar together. There are only two other 'senior' women at my gym that I can spar with. If we find a class that two of us will be at, we'll both agree to definitely get to that class so we get chance to spar.

Last week, I declined an evening event at work because I'd booked a sparring session with one of these women.

A colleague asked me why I wasn't going to the event. I explained. As I was explaining I said "Obviously men and women don't spar with each other so when there's a chance for me to spar with one of the senior women, I take it".

A couple of other colleagues were standing around and heard the conversation. One of them said "Why obviously?" and I answered - men are bigger, men are heavier, men's bodies are shaped/composed differently, there's lots of holding/grabbing, men can't fully throw themselves into sparring with women so its a bit of a waste of time for them, and ultimately its just gym policy anyway.

Today I've received an email from HR asking me to attend a meeting on Wednesday about 'offensive comments' I made last week. I've followed HR up this morning and they've told me that my 'offensive comments' were about my explanation of men/women not sparring with each other.

The lady in HR said its likely to be a informal chat to identify why my comments were offensive and to 'find a way through' (her exact words). She said it didn't look like there'd be any question of formal disciplinary action.

So, basically I've been summoned to a bollocking.

I've worked here 9 years and have an impeccable record. I've never been told off or had any sort of HR intervention before. So I'm not sure what to do or what to expect. I'm not in a union.

I wonder if anyone has any advice on the situation. What should I expect on Wednesday? How should I handle it? I'm completely clueless. Thank you!

TLDR: Been summoned for a bollocking on Wednesday because I told colleagues why men/women don't spar together at my MMA gym. What should I do?

@Codlingmoths that it so naive, you have no idea of the petty whine’s that HR have to listen to on a daily basis and the time and impact if they don’t treat them correctly.

Er, as I said, you should need to be no more careful talking about gender-related issues than any other issues. Therefore I wouldn't expect anyone should say other people should die. Not TERFS, not GCs, neither the royal family nor republicans, not atheists, not weather forecasters, not eco warriors...not even stationery cupboard monitors. I have no idea where, from my post, you've got the idea that I'm comfortable with saying people should die. 🤷‍♀️

@MarshaMelrose

MarshaMelrose · Today 13:17

We all need to be careful when talking about things gender-related”

This is so galling.

Why is a perfectly sensible statement when discussing a gender-related complaint “so galling”?

I agree everyone in work should be careful about language. Had the complaint been about the royal family, republicans, atheists, weather forecasters, eco warriors, stationery cupboard monitors. Stating “We all need to be careful when taking about all things …… (specific subject)” is a sensible statement to make.

Well done OP. Sounds like it went really well

Surely you were simply mentioning the gym policy and why it is in place?

The gym has decided that women should only spar with other women for very obvious health and safety reasons.

That's the norm in professional boxing matches as well isn't it?

So where is the issue?

If you are correcting reporting more or less what you said the trans issue does not come into it as you did not mention any of that.

Seriously this has reached a level of stupidity which is quite unbelievable...

During your meeting simply keep stating that you mentioned the club policy and made no reference whatsoever to trans men or women. The other person chose to misinterpret what you were saying and you have nothing to apologise for.

Fucking workplace bully disguising himself as a fucking White Knighter. Bet you any money you like that this means that any concerns about his performance will be met with 'I'm protected under Whistleblowing Legislation - you're victimising me'.

His reporting multiple people for varied nonsensical offences is a scattergun approach to ensure that any issues voiced from any quarter will be from them being out to get him following a discrimination report, rather than from him being shit/lazy/unpleasant/creepy as fuck to whatever persons he finds attractive (other than his True Love, who definitely faces him in the mirror every morning).

Sounds like it went as well as it could do. Hopefully HR are dealing with the idiot who is causing trouble. Does he not realise the reputation he’s getting with all these spurious complaints? I’d be blanking him as much as possible from now on, strictly work only conversations and those to be kept to a minimum. I wouldn’t get involved in conversations in his presence.

@Foreversearch
Say I said the RF should die and someone complained, HR would never say, we need to be careful about what we say when discussing the RF. Nor would they say it about weather forecasters or eco warriors or atheists. They'd only say it about topics that they think are particularly sensitive or contentious - in their opinion. Which they have designated women vs men in sport to be.

It's galling that they have chosen out of the ranks of many topics that this is one to be careful about. It's also quite patronising considering they'd concluded the op said nothing untoward.

I once sat on a committee in college where it was discussed prohibiting certain political issues prior to a general election that staff could talk about while having lunch with friends in the cafeteria. It's a slppery slope and when HR start warning you what topics you have to be especially careful about discussing, you're at the top of that slope.

Well done OP. What madness it is. The individual who’s poisoning your organisation must be avoided at all costs and any issues written up to keep yourself safe (ie if you feel harassed/penalised/watched).

Well done OP, enjoy your leave. This farce prove how vindictive and power pissed HR can be.

@MarshaMelrose you have obviously never heard of “Purdah guidance” https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1140374/May2023_Local_Elections__guidance_conduct_civil_servants.pdf

I just went into the main admin office (about seven people) to sort something out.

Something was mentioned about me doing some work next week. I said I couldn't because I'd be on leave.

One of the ladies asked if I was doing anything nice. I said I wasn't willing to talk about my free time because last time I did, I was hauled in to a meeting with HR.

Cue seven intrigued faces popping up over desk dividers.

I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it. But, for now, I reckon they've got me pegged as a prime suspect for 'caught dogging in ASDA car park' 😂

but nobody was talking about gender, they were talking about sex.

also not one mention of anyone needing to die, no hate speech, not even anything slightly iffy.

we should not allow anyone to drag gender into any totally irrelevant conversation just to provoke issues needlessly.

and also: nobody has the right NOT to be offended.

I can't read all that. Do me a favour, refer me to the section about teachers chatting with friends during their break.

@MzHz I absolutely agree “Nobody has the right NOT to be offended.”

I gave extreme examples to show how ridiculous a simple neutral statement that can be said to both parties can be blown up out of all proportion and be considered offensive or galling.

@MarshaMelrose sorry I forgot the 😭

Nah, don't cry for me. I got the committee to drop the idea.

Good for you Grubble. Sadly, it seems any 'out of work topic' is off limits now.. You have had a warning shot. I would even question why I go to social events with the company if I had to watch my P's and Q's... You absolutely did nothing wrong and hopefully HR will deal with this turd. But it is a sign of the times... Holy Crap! Enjoy you break. (And maybe evaluate what your long term plans are if there are ass oles like this where you work...) Actually, a friend of a friend who worked for a LA in London (going back to the 90's when all this PC nonsense started,) was reprimanded after a works SOCIAL TRIP... when she called another staff member, 'boy.' He took it as racist, she was American and that is what they call young men from where she comes from... She also was barred from being promoted for two years and lost pay.. Go figure!!

Brilliant

I am pleased that this went ok and feel that you were unfairly treated and did well to keep quiet - I would personally ask for this thread to be taken down as quite honestly you never know how people in the work place could use it

@Grubble, I am with you on this in that it made me laugh, and I also tend to agree with you on the underlying issues. However, I also worry that you might have been better off foregoing the satisfaction of "digging back" at HR, in order to keep HRs target on the anonymous shit-stirrer's back, where it belongs. In case HR hears of your words "hauled in by HR", you could get hauled in again for that. If that does happen, probably your best bet would be to apologise for your choice of words, and then tell them that your words may have reflected feelings of stress that you experienced after having been asked to meet with HR about "offensive comments" you allegedly made, and then left to worry about that meeting for several days before it actually happened.

Incidentally, I also have a hypothesis as to why HR went about setting up the meeting with you in the way they did. HR departments usually have very limited power in organisations, and one of their few sources of power is knowing things that other people do not know.

I might be reading too much into this, but I think it is fair to say we cannot exclude the possibility that when they set up the meeting several days in advance and described the subject in a particular way, they were deliberately using that information asymmetry to make you worry about what would be discussed at the meeting, because they knew that they had no other power and that once you found out about the actual content, they would have nothing on you. So getting you to worry for several days ahead of time could have been a deliberate tactic to get you to help to make their lives easier in the future, by getting you to self-censor on any topic that might bring this or another shit-stirrer back into their office with complaints.

Totally agree with @NeverDropYourMooncup - Keyboard Warrior is trying to make sure his own performance and behaviour can't be complained about because it will be seen as retaliation for his 'whistleblowing'. This year's version crying in every meeting with your boss and accusing her of being a bully (not me, a friend of mine).

So glad that the stress is over @Grubble , what a massive relief for you. Well done for choosing silence and enjoy your time off. This is a fantastic time for the rumours about what your HR offence was to reach fever pitch with you not there to refute them, classic.

Unfortunately HR can't do that. We want to several times a day.

Really well done, OP. I'm glad to hear you're rightly free of this bullshit, and I hope that HR are on the case of what sounds like a hugely horrible person to work with.

I'm glad it turned out okay for you and I hope you have a lovely break.

However, a note of warning. You have now experienced the "chilling effect" which is probably what the complainent was actually after. It stops people talking, it stops debate. It stops people doing or saying anything out of fear. Its insidious, nasty and very destructive.

Turns out the potentially ‘offensive’ thing was my speaking in a very generalised way about men and women. The concern raised was talking in a very generalised, homogenising way that some people might find offensive. The person who raised the concern wasn’t offended themselves apparently, but felt my comments could be offensive to some people.