Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

in defence of working mothers

184 replies

edam · 29/09/2004 23:43

I've been shocked by a couple of threads recently where people have been vitriolic about working mothers. All the usual, lazy, stupid comments about 'why have children if you aren't going to bring them up yourself' etc. etc.
And you know what? It makes me very angry. I have to work to feed my son and keep a roof over his head. Anyone lucky enough to be in a position where they don't have to do that should be damn grateful, not smug and superior.
I really need my sleep after a tough couple of days at work but I'm so incensed about this I'm on here instead.

OP posts:
Tinker · 29/09/2004 23:44

Hear hear

MUMINAMILLION · 29/09/2004 23:48

edam, sorry you are so upset by this. I am a SAHM, but only because I am in the position to do so (which I think I might have said).

People do get very heated about matters like this, but everyone's situations are different. Strangely, me and DH were talking about this tonight, and if I didnt have dd's, I would be out working. I do feel much more stimulated mentally when I am working rather than feeling I am always having to stimulate my children when at home.

I know how hard it is for those who have to bring up children and work - and have the greatest admiration for you. Please dont let anyone's personal comments upset you. You know what is best for your family, and you are obviously doing what is best.

TeriS · 29/09/2004 23:49

Too right edam! I agree, I work hard all day at my job, and then work really hard with DS evenings and weekends to make sure we get quality time. It's tiering, but he is worth the effort!

I know childcare may be looking after my child during the working hours, but the main responsibility is still mine!

hatter · 29/09/2004 23:51

Edam,

there have been some harsh comments recently but I think even the most militants would find it dificult to criticise someone for working out of financial necessity. Don't take it personally.

Socci · 30/09/2004 00:22

Message withdrawn

Chandra · 30/09/2004 01:12

To be totally honest, somebody who truly believes that the only place for a woman is at home with the children unless she has to go out to work due to financial needs, has overlooked 100 yrs of history, Im a SAHM, and what I fear the most is to end up so isolated of the world that I can only talk to my husband about the weather and how many poos the baby has managed during the day.

Be proud of be a working mum Edam, it takes twice the work than staying at home.

nightowl · 30/09/2004 01:14

i think to some extent youre "damned if you do and damned if you dont". as a single mum i could never win really. if i work i just want my own life and the kids are neglected, if i dont im scrounging off the state. ive worked ever since i left school and have never considered it neglecting my child. working and being "me" instead of just "mum" made me happy (at the time too it was necessary in a financial sense) and surely a happy mum makes a happier child? now i am a SAHM after being made redundant on my second mat leave and im actually (although not at first) enjoying spending the extra time with my baby. i see it as a "work break" however and i will go back when i feel the time is right and the job is right. my children are loved, looked after and have everything they want and need but i dont believe that when you have a baby your life should stop right there. if mothers want to work or need to work then why should they be condemned for it?

wizzysmum · 30/09/2004 01:22

I used to think I knew better than other people, then I had a baby that died. When she was so sick before birth lots of people tried to tell me what I should do. It made me realise that you are the only one who knows what is right for you, and other people should keep their opinions to themselves because they can be so hurtful. There are many right ways to bring up children - if your children are happy and loved, then what right has anyone else to criticize you?

roisin · 30/09/2004 08:08

Edam, please bear in mind the extreme views do not represent the feelings of the majority. I was a SAHM for 7 yrs, and still class myself as such though I am actually working part-time now. But I have the deepest respect for working mums.

I rarely post on SAHM/working mums threads, because I know where it will inevitably end up, and tbh I try not to read them at all. But my silence on the subject, and that of many many others in the same position, should not be taken as siding with the 'smug and superior'.

cab · 30/09/2004 08:25

Edam the only thing that's 'true' in this debate is that we are all, without exception, doing the best that we can for our children, within the limitations of our own personalities, circumstances and opportunities.
It is sad when people feel the need to justify their choices in life (or indeed emphasise their hardship) by attacking the other side in this debate.
Think the problem is that for every happy SAHM mum there's one who is miserable and would be better off working and for every happy working mum there's one who feels unbearable guilt and just wants to be with her kids.
I'm a SAHM (although do a bit in the family business) and have been so for about 4 years. I think what makes it hard for all of us is that we've been brought up to think the world is our oyster - we can do anything that we want to do.
Then the kids appear - and wham! Suddenly realisation hits that this society of ours is simply not geared to allowing women to do decent jobs part time so that we can demand a reasonable salary and spend some time with our kids. THIS is what really pees me off. Yes there are SOME jobs where one can work part time, but they're the exception - and there are very few where we can have the time off that we need to be with our children in the hols.
Had I realised all of this at an earlier age I wonder what choices I would have made when younger.
End of rant - and hope I haven't hurt feelings here. There are pros and cons of being both a working mum or SAHM, I'm glad I can be the latter but in terms of future security, being a role model and personal justification I do hanker after the former.

MeanBean · 30/09/2004 08:28

Every mother is a working mother.

Ditto what everyone else says - the militant views don't represent the majority. Most mothers, like most people, work because they have to, not because they choose to.

I think some of the more vitriolic comments can be put down to a defensiveness about the lack of value put on the work of full-time mothering. We are so swamped by messages that mothers have to work in the cash economy come hell or high water, that lots of SAHMs feel that what they are doing is being ignored or belittled by the media, government and society in general. That doesn't of course, give them the right to attack any other mother's choice or necessity, but I think it can lead to this unpleasant them and us position. Which can't benefit any mothers.

MeanBean · 30/09/2004 08:29

Posts crossed, agree with Cab

bundle · 30/09/2004 08:34

i work out of the home - not just out of necessity because if we didn't have the £900+ a month childcare fees (3 days a week for 2 dd's) then i'm pretty sure we'd have as much (or as little) money as we do now - because it's good for me & my family. negative comments about this - or about sahm's etc - are the result of ignorance, or a lack of empathy imo.

motherinferior · 30/09/2004 09:10

I'm one of the mothers who want to work outside the home. Sometimes this makes me feel guilty. At other times I think of my mother, who was a SAHM for several reasons and not, I think, fulfilled in that role - and I want a different life, the one that I have.

I'm lucky in that I like my job. But actually we couldn't live on DP's income. Hell, we couldn't live on mine, and I earn more than he does!

Hope you are feeling less unhappy today, sweetie.

Original poster
edam · 30/09/2004 09:27

Oh, you are all so lovely! Thank you esp. the SAHMs for being so positive. TBH I am struggling with the job/baby thing at the moment which probably makes some of the recent threads more difficult to take than usual. I used to have a job I loved and felt was very worthwhile (and basically worked four day week). Now I have one full-time to pay the bills (following redundancy), don't enjoy it am am basically not having a good time at work.
Agree especially with Nightowl and Cab has a good point about equality before children and then the shock of realising you are damned either way once you have children. And I would definitely support better arrangements to give women a real choice between staying at home and going to work.
But someone said no-one would criticise a mother working out of financial necessity. I don't think anyone should criticise someone working for other reasons, either. I used to have a job where I genuinely made a difference and that was important to me. Other people have real talents that they need to use or will end up frustrated and unhappy. There are lots of other factors.

OP posts:
twogorgeousboys · 30/09/2004 09:59

Edam, I think that women, whether they go out to work or are a sahm, will always get a hammering from one quarter or another about the choices they make or HAVE to make.

Quite a lot of people say (about Mumsnet), "if you don't like a comment, just ignore it".

The thing is, sometimes its really hard to, especially when it's a comment which strikes at the heart of how you live and bring up your family.

Usually, these hurtful comments are borne out of ignorance and yes, stupidity.

Whilst it's important to be able to "say what you think" on sites like this, some could benefit from engaging their brain before they do so.

Hope you feel better today.

coppertop · 30/09/2004 10:02

I'm a SAHM and I agree that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you work outside the home you're neglecting your children (supposedly!) and if you're a SAHM it's because you're obviously far too lazy to go out and get yourself a "proper" job.

MTS · 30/09/2004 10:03

agree with 2gb - it would be nice if we could all respect the choices that other women make - whether it be to work as it makes you happier, works as you can't afford not to, stay at home coz it makes you happier, stay at home coz you can't afford not to. doing what mum feels is best does tend to be what's best for the family

PennyMojo · 30/09/2004 10:05

Well I've been a working mother and I'm now a SAHM (which I feel very fortunate to be able to be)

must say whichever one I was it felt like there was a vocal group slagging me off for what I was doing ...

you really really can't win on this one .. in the end it boils down to what is best for you and your family .. and that's the right thing to do .. bugger what anyone else says edam .. what do they matter? the only ones that matter are you and yours

I blame the government .. rant rant .. 'choice' .. yeah right, I ask you ..

sis · 30/09/2004 10:07

I agree with all the comments so far. Wizzysmum, I am very sorry about your baby and hope you are okay.

serenequeen · 30/09/2004 10:09

hear, hear, edam. that particular comment really irritates me. so should only the affluent (who can survive on one salary) or those on benefits be allowed to have kids?

serenequeen · 30/09/2004 10:10

oh yes wizzysmum, i'm so dreadfully sorry

Pagan · 30/09/2004 10:12

Edam I think you hit the nail right on the head with your comments about lack of value for full time Mums. I'm a SAHM but try not to comment on this subject for similar reasons to Roisin. Also agree with the damned if you do or don't comments. Many times when I've said I wasn't going back to work I got raised eyebrows and subtle comments, mainly from women. Then when pressed on the subject and make my own personal choices and opinions known they sound like I'm having a dig so in turn the working ones among us get defensive, it's just a viscious circle. It's what's best for the individual that counts.

princesspeahead · 30/09/2004 10:17

Edam, in my experience the only people who are completely dogmatic about either being a working mother or a SAHM are the people who are uncomfortable about their own decisions in life, and are transferring their insecurities onto others. It is worth remembering that completely dogmatic views about anything at all are almost always unacceptable to the majority in a society, because they never take into account the huge variation in circumstances. Human beings are a sophisticated enough life form to be able to be flexible about almost every situation that comes their way - why should this one be any different?!

I have always been a working mother, I've recently stopped, so am a SAHM at the moment, and I'm likely to go back to work at some point - in 3 months? 3 years? - or maybe not. I'll wait and see what works for me. And I would never dream of commenting on anyone else's decision either! But I do know that for almost everyone, the decisions about working and staying at home almost always involve a compromise. Those who don't feel they are compromising (who are completely happy one way or another, or who have found the perfect balance for them) are almost always those who have the most understanding and respect for others' choices, as they know how difficult it is to reach that balance.

Those who crap on about "why have children if you aren't going to bring them up" or "you SAHMs just drink coffee and watch daytime telly all day" aren't really worth getting cross about, because they aren't going to change until they are a bit more honest about their own choices.

iota · 30/09/2004 10:24

I agree with PPH - I was a working mum until a yr ago, when thanks to a nice redundancy payment, I am now a SAHM.

I'm comfortable with my choice and really don't care what other people think - but then if people make snidey comments I just wind them up - I call myself 'A lady who lunches' - because I do when the kids are at school/nursery