Help: FT lawyer having a horrible time (long...)

[lemur]

All advice on how to sort my working world out would be gratefully received... here is the thing:

I have a 9.5 month DD, in FT nursery care, a job in the City as a FT lawyer in private practice and two male partner bosses who just don't seem to realise the pressure that the above combination creates. It is Saturday night and I have just had huge row with monster of boss because I have to be in meetings tomorrow (Sunday, yes, I know it is the weekend) and I physically cannot be there as have to look after DD. DP cannot look after DD as he has football match to play(and does not want to be dictated to by my bosses) I have no handy relatives nearby who can look after DD and cannot leave DD with a friend as the meeting could go on indefinitely (i.e until Monday...).

And why am I even worrying about that level of detail, when the point is that the monster boss has, beyond saying "well you are the breadwinner so DP should sacrifice what he is doing" is also making me contact all my childless colleagues in a grovelling fashion to ask them to go to the meetings tomorrow, to punish me.

I am a lawyer and I know that somewhere in all of the S**T that is currently part of my working world, there is something breaching some of my employment rights, but I am not an employment lawyer. DP is away all next weekend and I am supposed to be working then too. I feel like just not bothering to go into work ever again.

DD had Chicken Pox just before Christmas, I had to be home with her for 7 working days and the matter ended up being referred to HR and me having to take unpaid leave because I came into work one day while DP looked after DD and so lost my right to any more emergency leave for the rest of the time DD was contagious (as was not an emergency as I knew she had CP!!!). This gives you a flavour of the way it works at the firm I work at.

I have only been back at work since the end of September 2006 and the gruelling routine of half an hour each way walk to nursery and then to work plus the working on work from 8pm until midnight plus the manipulative bosses (who had/have wives at home to look after kids) being totally unreasonable plus the fact my mum died a month before DD was born and I miss her all the time = I am somewhat losing the plot. That is a bit of an understatement.

So I guess the question is, do I just accept that you cannot do it all and find new, normal, job doing something that will never mean I have to work after 5.30 or weekends, or try and win against forces of chauvinism in the City of chauvinists?

Ideas welcome. Thank you.

shit I dont know lemur but i feel for you. I know the feeling of utter helplessness and desperation you must be feeling by not wanting to let either side (family/work) down.

Although obviously I dont know the law Im sure you are able to request family friendly working or something if you have children under 5. Is the meeting something that has to be done tomorrow (ie. with clients) or do you think he is being a pig for the sake of proving you are not able to make the committment? My friend has an extremely responsible job with a well known bank and her boss was withholding good projects from her and then landing her with the mother of all projects - she has lived and breathed it and still managed to work from home 1 day a week just to prove she could do it. It is now finished and she is both knackered but supremely glad she did it.

Freckle and Sis are excellent and although I havent seen Sis lately Freckle is always around.

poor poor you. i really do sympathise.... but dont have any easy answers. i'm not sure why but the world of law does seem to be particularly dmanding / difficult to combine with proper family life / any life if you are involved at any high level.... i am barrister, taking a year long sabbatical (not easy but possible as self employed) with ds's 9 and 7. main reason was total and utter fedupness at always having to put children second to bloomin work let alone poor dh and my own wants which fell off bottom of the scale... so, loads of sympathy. speak to employment lawyer. speak to your hr / boss if you think that is appropriate / will help. perhaps if you are going to work in this job you will need to find some emergency childcare to fall back on. if you are in london there are agencies etc who could help.... not ideal and not cheap. or else you and dh are going to have to have serious discussion about compromise if you are going to do this job.... and put what is best for dd first. let us know how you get on. hth.

I don't know about the legal side but my gut feel would be to look for other employment, even if it meant a bit less money. I realise that is easier said than done but speak as someone who has given up my 'real' well paid job to do something much more menial but I am so happy now.

Life's too short.

Good luck .

what did you give up and what do you do now clayhead?

Don't want to give too much info but gave up professional career in industry which I'd qualified for after graduation and retrained for something with school holidays. Low paid but convenient.

I am not the main breadwinner though so I had choices.

sounds good move. am lucky enough to have choices too. dont want to go back to what i was doing but its a hard decision.

my old boss at a top 5 law firm gave it up to be a holiday rep.

Another old boss at same firm is now training to be a teacher (waves in case CM is a Mner)

I'm sorry for you lemur. How stressful. People really have no idea do they?

What would happen if you were to simply say, 'No. I won't work weekends. I'm a mum'.?

didnt know you were a lawyer too jampots!

I've never regretted it. I may have lost some form of status (and definitely pay!) but I have gained flexibilty and time and, for me at this point, flexibility and time are more valuable.

I also think I use a lot of the skills from my 'other' career, although at first sight there doesn't appear to be a crossover!

Oh your poor thing, how horrible. You absolutely don't need it. I am trained as a lawyer but work as a lecturer, and tbh that's no better in terms of family friendly and flexibility. You would think as a firm of lawyers they would be careful wrt to emplyment law. I have not done employment law for some years so am prob rusty- do you know anyone in employment who can give you advice?

Your boss is a giant arse. Hope you sort things out x

lemur, I work under those pressures except I work for myself. In my marriage there was no question but that my work came first and we were all happy with that, including the chidlren as they got bigger, whether it was Sunday, over night or whatever and I didn't mind either. I suppose some people are like that and others aren't. How on earth football can come above an important work thing I've no idea but you an dyour husband have to pick your own priorities. If he won't cancel his match then make him fix child care.

I think you need a better equal balance perhaps with him doing my child care or hiring more childcare yourself. I don't think this is anyting to with chauvinism. It's how this kind of work is and most people are hugely remunerated for it and more than happy with the sacrifices adn rewards it brings. It's nothing much to do with what sex you happen to be.

Is there some way you can hire someone to do the walk to nursery or pay a nanny to come to your house to make things easier that way. Is it an interesting job you might enjoy tomorrow? Is this the issue - that I would rather do a lot of work on a Sunday than sing some stupid children's song, that the work is pleasure? If you could make the work pleasure perhaps that would solve the problem. Can you get the work adrenalin going so you feel it's exciting?

I was never home with a child with chickepox - that is the nanny issue again. I think most people with those kinds of jobs find a nanny at home works better. I had 5 children and it becomes cheaper to have a nanny than pay for lots of nursery places. I can see I am the only one on the thread who loves work and has no problems working on Sundays etc.... oh dear. Perhaps people just differ.

controlfreaky - im not! Im a legal secretary

or i should say was

well, bet that gave you full insight into legal circles!

yes indeed it did. I was there for 9 years

although have worked in law firms for 20 years

20 years after qualifying has been enough for me!

am really off to bed!

Goodness, how appalling for you. I am not a lawyer but hold a senior role at an international law firm and that is certainly not the way working mothers are treated at our firm. Our Management Team are VERY pro working mothers, and we have a fabulous mat policy, flex working committee who rarely decline applications, fab childcare support, emergency time off etc etc etc. What area do you specialise is and how many years qualified are you? Our weekly HR bulletin lists what lawyers we are looking for if you're interested!

I have been on mat leave since July 2005. I had a very traumatic birth and have a colostomy bag as a result, hoping to get rid of it at some point. At the end of my planned mat leave my firm came to me and said that I shouldn't extend my mat leave, as I'd planned, but that I should go on sick leave. I then got pregnant by mistake (oops) and they have been nothing but supportive. It will be nearly 3 years by the time I am well enough to return to work, but they are paying me 75% of my salary whilst off sick (contractually entitled to 1 month full pay) plus 6 months full pay for each of my mat leave entitlements, they'v extended my BUPA cover during the short period of AML I took to ensure I wasn't without access to private medical care at any time, my HR Manager comes to my house every few months to see how I am, what else they can do to help. And when I'm ready to go back they say I can either have my old job back, or I can work part time, have a role with less international travel, become a consultant etc etc.

I list all this not to gloat, I promise, but to show you that not all law firms are the same and that it is worth looking around. Given that I work for the world's largest law firm, originally US based, my experience I hope will give you some hope!

On another note, a friend of mine moved to Mishcon's a few years back having just had her first child. She was actively recruited AS a working mother as a role model to their younger female lawyers. She was very open about the fact that she wanted another baby, and in fact was there just under a year before starting maternity leave with her second. She works 3 days a week, rarely rarely works other than that, and they have been marvellous to her.

Soooooo, ditch these awful people who treat you with so little respect. You and your family deserve so much better. The stress you are working under must be horrendous.

You have all my sympathy xx

And I got my last job when I had two children under 4 and was 5 months pregnant.

On every thread I have been on yesterday and today the key issue is the husbands - women marry those who don't pull their weight; they tolerate that; they accept the burden. Don't. Children have two equal parents. Why do all these intelligent women just take on the burdens? I think this is the key issue with women and work, nothing to do with firms we work for; it's how women choose to have more burdens at home than men.

I agree re the nanny. If you are working so hard then someone needs to come to you and also I htink your dh is being disingenuous here - what is he really trying to say?

Well I kind of agree with Xenia! Dh use dto be a City lawyer and really I guess you have to take the choice. Work in a City law firm will never be a 9 to 5 job (actually work in any law firm won't be). One option would be to take on more home based childcare- a nanny would be more flexible. Although I do realise that depending on where you are on the career ladder, that may be unaffordable- even on City assistant wages. There are some childminders that work at weekends, some offering ad hoc care- they're rare, but they do exist so maybe worth looking for.

You'll notice that in my above paragraph I said dh "used" to be in a City law firm. After having ds2 - byt which time we knew there were going to be some problems with ds1 (he's severely autistic although he wasn't diagnosed at the time), we decided that dh needed to be around more than his job would alllow him to, and that we needed more help. So one huge paycut later (that 4 and half years later we still haven't made up- and had dh stayed in the City he would pprobably be earning at least double his current salary- that's assuming he was still an assistant) we moved to be near my parents. Although financially we're a lot worse off we don't have the same pressures, and or lifestyle is actually better. DH does still work long hours, he does occasionally have to go to work events at the weekend- but those are social jollies and he can say no if he has to. People understand that he has a family (3 kids now), they understand that he has a disabled child, and they've been very flexible when he's wanted to attend meetings to do with ds1.

I think your current position is unworkable really. Either your dh will have to agree to cancel things like football matches, so that you can go to work (and trips away- I would have had to when dh was in the City), or you need to move somewhere where the working culture recognises that you have a life outside of work that is (shock) more important to you than your job.

Good luck- but I think you need to sit your dh doown and talk about how you're going to resolve this.

What does your contract say regarding working hours? It strikes me that they are being unreasonable. They know your childcare situation, yet are demanding that you go to work at a time when you have none.

I have to say that, from what you have written, it sounds to me that they are trying to get rid of you. You may have a case for constructive dismissal. If you feel the same, you should make an appointment with an employment lawyer. Solicitors are notorious for being crap employers and applying the law in this area.

I don't agree that your dp should have to give up his activity when your employers are behaving unreasonably and are demanding hours over and above what you should have to work. It does sound as though he is being less than supportive, but, if he gives in now, how many more times will your employers take the piss and demand weekend working.

You have several options. You either accept things as they are and do what your employers want. You could raise a grievance outlining what issues you have with how they are treating you (you'd have to do this anyway if you wish to claim constructive dismissal later). You could look for another job with a more reasonable and flexible employer.

Horrid situation and it's true that many male employers in the legal field have no conception of dealing with childcare, etc., because they have wives at home to deal with that. It's also true that many of them do not like female solicitors and will go out of their way to get rid if they can.