Help: FT lawyer having a horrible time (long...)

[lemur]

All advice on how to sort my working world out would be gratefully received... here is the thing:

I have a 9.5 month DD, in FT nursery care, a job in the City as a FT lawyer in private practice and two male partner bosses who just don't seem to realise the pressure that the above combination creates. It is Saturday night and I have just had huge row with monster of boss because I have to be in meetings tomorrow (Sunday, yes, I know it is the weekend) and I physically cannot be there as have to look after DD. DP cannot look after DD as he has football match to play(and does not want to be dictated to by my bosses) I have no handy relatives nearby who can look after DD and cannot leave DD with a friend as the meeting could go on indefinitely (i.e until Monday...).

And why am I even worrying about that level of detail, when the point is that the monster boss has, beyond saying "well you are the breadwinner so DP should sacrifice what he is doing" is also making me contact all my childless colleagues in a grovelling fashion to ask them to go to the meetings tomorrow, to punish me.

I am a lawyer and I know that somewhere in all of the S**T that is currently part of my working world, there is something breaching some of my employment rights, but I am not an employment lawyer. DP is away all next weekend and I am supposed to be working then too. I feel like just not bothering to go into work ever again.

DD had Chicken Pox just before Christmas, I had to be home with her for 7 working days and the matter ended up being referred to HR and me having to take unpaid leave because I came into work one day while DP looked after DD and so lost my right to any more emergency leave for the rest of the time DD was contagious (as was not an emergency as I knew she had CP!!!). This gives you a flavour of the way it works at the firm I work at.

I have only been back at work since the end of September 2006 and the gruelling routine of half an hour each way walk to nursery and then to work plus the working on work from 8pm until midnight plus the manipulative bosses (who had/have wives at home to look after kids) being totally unreasonable plus the fact my mum died a month before DD was born and I miss her all the time = I am somewhat losing the plot. That is a bit of an understatement.

So I guess the question is, do I just accept that you cannot do it all and find new, normal, job doing something that will never mean I have to work after 5.30 or weekends, or try and win against forces of chauvinism in the City of chauvinists?

Ideas welcome. Thank you.

I really sympathise too - I also used to be a City lawyer.

I agree that a nanny is much easier. I used a nursery when I just had ds and it was really difficult. We were constantly last picking him up even though the nursery was only in Islington (so not very far from work). The people it seems to work for are male partners who have full time wives at home, or very dedicated female partners - neither of whom appear to see their children alot.

Eventually though, I decided that City law and children didn't mix. Even if dh could do more of the childcare, I wanted to be more involved and see my children more. I found it too stressful mixing children and work (even when I managed to negotiate 4 days/week).For us this did mean a life change and, eventually, a move out of London, but I don't regret it. I think that if you really love your career then you can make it work for you with a nanny.

an aupair could help as well

Freckle, I really don't think they're trying to get rid of her. It's just the deal. If you're in a job where ultimately you can earn £1m to £2m a year and where very few people get those chances plus want it then that's the arrangement - you work when the clients want you to work. If you love the work like I do it's not such a bad deal at all. When you look at the mothers on mumsnet trying to get into cleaning jobs at £6 an hour at anti social hours and compare that with some of teh dilemmas some of us have and what some women would do to earn what we earn I suppose you then just have to see it as a choice - weekend work in this kind of area or not. It's a job you just sometimes need to put first. Just before Christmas I was really busy on something. We had conference calls on Sunday and all that stuff.

Actually one thing we haven't commented on is that her mother died and she's very sad about that. It may be it's not the work but other things that need to be sorted out.

But it isn't just about working the hours the clients want. It's the other stuff too, about referring her to HR because she needed to take time off when her dd was ill, making her contact all her childless colleagues to go to meetings, etc. It's all rather humiliating and, in my view, designed to belittle her and make her job untenable.

Compare how she is treated with how spudballoo's firm treat their working mothers.

spudballoo has pointed out that it doesn;t have to be this way for the OP. i don;t know the size of the OP's firm but i would say jump ship and go work at spudballoo's place. sounds fab, but obviously it's not as simple as that.

i consciously left my previous employer, when we decided to start a family, to join the one i'm with now to do a similar grade job but for the more family friendly working conditions.

I haven't read all of this thread, so appologies if I duplicate anything. You are right to think that your employment rights are being breached. There are regulations to oblige employers to allow flexibility to parents, but employers can wriggle out if they can justify a 'business need'. You have to put your request for flexible working in writing and they have, I think, 14 days in which to respond. It doesn't help for today, but you could consider doing this to attempt to avoid future meetings being called at weekends. Also, if you are being treated differently to fathers in your department, then that could amount to sex discrimination. Likewise, if the majority of the colleagues that you had to phone were male. However, the City is notorious for ignoring anything to do with equal rights (I trained in a city firm, so I have first hand experience), so if you do stand up to them, it will be fight and it will be dirty. Last year, a number of brave ladies succesfully took on banking institutions. Do you have any friends/acquaintances/folk you knew at law school working as employment lawyers? If you do, talk to them. I abandoned life as an employment lawyer several years ago to run my own business, so at the moment I'm only up enough on the law to avoid getting into trouble as an employer, but if you want a recommendation for an employment, I can make some suggestions.

In the real world in these sorts of jobs employment rights are irrelevant. You don't work again in your field even if you bring the biggest sexual orientation, race or sex discrimination claim. Most parents in those sorts of jobs don't stay home with sick chidlren. They hire someone to care for them. I don't know a city parent who would take 7 days off with a child with chicken pox. Obviously something like cancer would be different but even then you hire help as well as do what you can. Some have a nanny and an au pair if they are both in those sorts of jobs.

batters post I am happy with. That's the issue - do you want that work/life or not. he hsuand us playing some stupid sports match today and away next weekend. I think the problem is with the husband really as it often is.

I'm not a lawyer but bloody hell, poor you. The combination of new first baby, your mum dying and going back to work ft is hard enough, even without monster bosses. There are lots of lawyers on mumsnet (haven't read the thread) so maybe one of them can advise on the legality but the way they are treating you is disgusting. I work for a large organisation and this just wouldn't happen, absolutely not. It is not your boss's place to dictate your arrangements outside of workign hours. Do you have a contract? I'd suggest reading it AND looking for another job. Bastards.

I think that one of the previous posters may have a valid point wrt bereavement. I found life hard to cope with after the death of my Mother just a short time after the birth of my first child. Becoming a mother and losing my own mother was mentally crippling. Add in work pressures and partners who do not pull their weight and something will eventually crack.

In my aged experience, children grow, partners either shape up or don't, work is a constant. If you can approach your career as something that enhances the rest of your life then you will find decisions regarding childcare, child rearing and the proper allocation of home responsibilities so much easier.

Good luck.

Xenia, I think you're being very hard. As a PP pointed out, not one of us have expressed our regrets to Lemur about her mother dying. So I'll be the first - I am so sorry to hear about that, and yes that will be making absolutley everything else in your life feel so much worse. My mother died 9 years ago, strangely on my first day at the law firm where I now work. It has taken me a long time to come to terms with that.

And, not to add salt in your wounds, my lovely firm gave me a month's PAID leave even though I'd worked for them for 25 minutes when I got the call to say my mother had collapsed. When I was ready to return to work, they offered me the chance to come back part time to ease myself in and paid for bereavement counselling for me.

I hear what other's are saying about City life, and that in many respects there are some life choices to be made. But it doesn't have to be the way it is for you at the moment.

I'm very sorry for your loss xxx

PS a 9 month old with chicken pox? Yup, I'd have taken the time too.

hello lemur! any time i can help, just call. really. do you want us to look after dd next weekend? very very happy to do so. speak soon. lots of love xxx

I'm with Freckle on this. I don't think it's on for employers to treat employees like this whether the employee is a parent or not. And I don't see why the dp OR Lemus should give up their Sunday and drop everything at short notice. But hey, if all City law demands this then thank god I'm not one. I think many, many employers agree and wouldn't/don't treat employees like this.

Lemur, it is hard too when a parent dies, much sympathy. You must miss her. It does get easier but it's very early days for you, September is very recent. Cruse site, there might be something here that helps

I think you should look for another job and chalk this down to experience. Yes, you could go for constructive dismissal or something but as Xenia says, realistically it's not going to help your career any.

It's a special kind of job as I said, potential earnings up to £1m - £2m a year. Of course you often work weekends and all nights. You know that when you pick the job and arrange your child care accordingly.

I'm a city accountant rather than a lawyer. I faced similar issues a few years ago with my then employer - big 4.

I left there and went to work at a mid-tier firm where I was as clear as I could be about the fact that I was not going to be working 'normal' hours.

I've pretty much stuck to my side of the bargain and they to theirs - I am now a partner there so have managed to keep my career on track - although the few years of part time working made it slower to get there - although I think that is fair enough!

It is difficult sometimes, especially having to juggle some of the activities that go with the patch, such as dinners, conferences etc which all take me away from home in the evenings - perhaps 1 night a week on average.

Otherwise, I pack up and leave the office about 6 home for 7 and then work in the evening for a couple of hours once the children are in bed. I never work weekends, although I will take calls and deal with emergencies if I need to.

There is something about moving that changes one's working capital I find. At the point of moving the new employer has just made a fairly large investment in you (agency fees being what they are these days) and wants to make it work. You have to be totally honest at interview though - so that you can always be seen to keep your side of the bargain. Important in building trust between employee and employer.

I do agree with Xenia - a nanny is almost a must trying to work in this kind of area, unless you find a nursery with long hours. A DH who sees bringing up the children as a joint exercise is also a must. My DH and I juggle our lives all the time - and I am sorry, but if it was a case of my career being under threat or my DH playing football, I'd go ballistic if he suggested the footie was more important! Whether or not he agrees with the demands being placed on you by work, he should be trying to do all that he can to help you manage your stress over work, and be supportive to you and I think your DH has just made things a lot harder for you in the situation you are currently in. Even if you do change jobs you do not want word spreading around the unbelievebly incestuous City network that you are a 'difficult' employee.

I agree wholeheartedly with both Xenia and Batters though - is this the life you want? Are you prepared to lose a big chunk from your child's early life? There are other options for lawyers, beyond the City - downshifting a bit (as I did) is possible it doesn't need to be all or nothing

And finally - I am very sorry to hear of your DM's death, the loss of her support must be awful for you

Agree with soapbox. And I;m sorry I kind of missed the bit about your mother's death in your post (read it but didn;t digest it) so my post about moving closer to my parents may seem insensitive. I'm sorry if it did.

Dh's experience of moving out of the City has been similar to dh's. I'd recommend it, if you want to have some sort of life outside work.

oh soapbox stayed in the city- but anyway same idea- dh moved to big commerical firm outside London initially, then a year ago into a very provincial firm. guess where he's happiest

Agree with Soapbox and you pick what makes you happiest and works for the whole family. But I don't think we should judge those sorts of jobs and say there's something inherently wrong in a job where you make megabucks, are probably one of the best people in the country at it, the client is paying a fortune and wants you there when they need you - that's not a wrong way to work and live and quite fun for some of us. We just all like different things and ways of life (and I'm not saying I always have found it fun - everything has ups and downs). Everyone has my mobile. They all know I can be rung any time they want. Before Christmas I was going to bed at mid night just off the phone saying if anything happens over night just call and I meant that... and last year I bought an island, I live in a lovely house, we just went skiing, I'm going skiing later this month... it's a sort of price you pay but it is much easier to do once the children aren't under 5, I must say. Now it's hugely easier with the youngest at 8 than when they were little on both mothers and fathers. My poor brother will be on call all night dealing with dying patients and then up from 4am with 2 vomiting under 3s. Hard for everyone when you have little children.

I agree with Xenia too I'm afraid, if you work as a City Lawyer, in most situations work comes first. It is one thing saying that your employers are discriminating against you, but in reality there is little you can do about it. I have not heard of a woman lawyer in one of the big firms successfully arguing that they can leave the office and a reasonable time and not work at weekends. It is possible to work in smaller or medium firms in London though and have understanding bosses and work more reasonable hours. In my last job I worked 3 days a week and was generally home by 7. I still had to work weekends days off and my sometimes, and the evenings and take calls on my days off.

I chose to leave and now work on a job-share basis for 2 days a week (and earn substantially less as a result!), but for me the downshift was worth it - I didn't love my job enough, and the potential earnings weren't important enough to me to lose that time with my family (in fact tbh, even without children I would have struggled to be dedicated enough not to resent the hours needed).

sorry that got a bit garbled - (I meant to say) I had to work weekends and my days off sometimes

It interests me. I know a lot of men as well as women who leave those jobs and a lot who carry on. I think one issue is whetehr they love it. It's like those running businesses who have more than enough mnoey to retire but they work and excel at it because they love the work. I can achieve almost what I call flow, happiness, complete involvement in some work things that are fascinating. I don't really work for the money only by any means. I just like the work I do. This is what I want the 5 children to get - work they love. My father did psychiatry because he was fascinated by the human mind. He could have retired at 55 or earlier but he chose to work to 77 just because the work itself was such fun.

(mind you doing the most boring thing ever today for work so keep coming on here...)

i think you've had really good advice on here.

• you need to get out of the firm you are in
• if you are the breadwinner then your family relies on your income and your dh has to back you 100%. Footie comes second.
• with that kind of job with unpredictable hours/travel a nursery isn't the right childcare for you, it's too hard on you. - unless that is your dh will agree to the pick up/drop off when required.

wish you all the best.

sadly not just in the law - same in my line of work too. I wouldn't be able to do this job if DH hadn't decided he'd be a sahd. So I'm utterly spoiled.

However, it was bloody hard at first to accept that I can't be all things to everyone, and my old boss reacted just like yours. Looking at it from his point of view though - pre baby he could rely on you to work when he needed you, he was your baby and you'd do whatever it took to keep him happy. YOU have changed, he has not. He won't understand that he can't have the old version back. The only way my old boss got it was when his 3rd wife (ahem) had a baby when he was 57, and was then hospitalised with gallstones for 6 weeks.

So you have 3 choices:

• grin and bear it
• have a difficult conversation with him/HR that may impact your career at the firm
• start thinking about moving on and being accepted as a mum as well as a lawyer, rather than as a "woman who used to be a lawyer but has gone all baby"

And re your mother - huge sympathy. Don't underestimate the grieving process, talk to someone neutral. As a mum you condition yourself to be the coping one and sometimes you need permission to be the crying one again. Thats what counsellors are for.

ah... how many working fathers would say they are "utterly spoiled" because they have a stay at home wife? Isnm't that comment - you think something which is fair and normal is "utterly spoiled" and something many men take for granted and should just be a normal part of equitable relationships the key. We need to get to a position that when a man or woman decides one of them stays at home that is not utterly spoiling the working one but a very fair division of labour.