Help: FT lawyer having a horrible time (long...)

[lemur]

All advice on how to sort my working world out would be gratefully received... here is the thing:

I have a 9.5 month DD, in FT nursery care, a job in the City as a FT lawyer in private practice and two male partner bosses who just don't seem to realise the pressure that the above combination creates. It is Saturday night and I have just had huge row with monster of boss because I have to be in meetings tomorrow (Sunday, yes, I know it is the weekend) and I physically cannot be there as have to look after DD. DP cannot look after DD as he has football match to play(and does not want to be dictated to by my bosses) I have no handy relatives nearby who can look after DD and cannot leave DD with a friend as the meeting could go on indefinitely (i.e until Monday...).

And why am I even worrying about that level of detail, when the point is that the monster boss has, beyond saying "well you are the breadwinner so DP should sacrifice what he is doing" is also making me contact all my childless colleagues in a grovelling fashion to ask them to go to the meetings tomorrow, to punish me.

I am a lawyer and I know that somewhere in all of the S**T that is currently part of my working world, there is something breaching some of my employment rights, but I am not an employment lawyer. DP is away all next weekend and I am supposed to be working then too. I feel like just not bothering to go into work ever again.

DD had Chicken Pox just before Christmas, I had to be home with her for 7 working days and the matter ended up being referred to HR and me having to take unpaid leave because I came into work one day while DP looked after DD and so lost my right to any more emergency leave for the rest of the time DD was contagious (as was not an emergency as I knew she had CP!!!). This gives you a flavour of the way it works at the firm I work at.

I have only been back at work since the end of September 2006 and the gruelling routine of half an hour each way walk to nursery and then to work plus the working on work from 8pm until midnight plus the manipulative bosses (who had/have wives at home to look after kids) being totally unreasonable plus the fact my mum died a month before DD was born and I miss her all the time = I am somewhat losing the plot. That is a bit of an understatement.

So I guess the question is, do I just accept that you cannot do it all and find new, normal, job doing something that will never mean I have to work after 5.30 or weekends, or try and win against forces of chauvinism in the City of chauvinists?

Ideas welcome. Thank you.

Yes, men give it up too. We are all very privileged to have these choices. Most people don't.
jp, yes, I'm a 65 year old unemployed man in Jarrow making all this up obviously.....

Blinkered... I just think so many women again and again all over the place and tin eh press go on and on about how hard things are, moan moan moan (may be women just do that generally more than men) and every article on women and work is about how they want to work hardly any hours and yet there's a silent majority who work full time, love it and don't want special different treatment from men who have loving partners who think the chidlren are as much their responsiblity as the mother's and where both parents work full time and sort out child care between them. Not all working mothers want to work part time and not all think flexible working and reduced hours for women is this holy grail that it is made out to be. There is a case indeed against it and I am happy to make that case.

xenia I didnt intimate you are a troll .

You come across as a real ballbreaker though Im afraid and almost to the point that you simply cant understand women who want more than hitting targets and fee earning. Possibly you have everything down to a fine art and can manage it all as long as it has a code and every 6 minutes is accountable for.

I sense that Lemur isnt of the same mould and actually wants to be good at her job and enjoy her family life and why the hell shouldnt she - after all she's worked hard for both

Isn't that what we all including me said? If she doesn't want this deal then best to find something that is more suitable.

Ball breaker... that's interesitng - it's like people who say a man saying something assertive at work is marvellous and a woman saying it is wrong, classic reason women are penalised wrongly at work. Do women have to be kind of simpering pathetic things without views though?

I have to say I'm with jampots on this, Xenia. I'm not really sure what experience you have personally of working at big City firms (other than just having mates who work there). The practical reality is very different from the theory and it's certainly not all black and white. In my own case dh is a partner at one of the big accountancy firms - can you really see him phoning in and cancelling meetings because "the nanny is sick and my wife took her turn being at home last time". Purleeease. It just doesn't work that way.

I don't like your sweeping generalisation that we "put in the long hours whilst junior, just when you're about to get the gold you choose to go hoome to iron the husband's shirts and clean the bottoms of the babies. Cannot fathom all these women who love taking that choice." For a start if you knew anything at all about being a partner in a city firm (lawyers or accountants) you would know that the partners nowadays do just as long hours as anyone else, and in many cases even more.

Just because I chose not to go back to my old job doesn't mean my days are made up of ironing shirts and changing bottoms. Personally I think it's important for children to have their mothers around. But then that's something you and I will never agree on....

pig, it is unacceptable for men or women to call in because a child is sick in my view. It's a sexually neutral issue and for women to do it does them down and is not in their long term interest at work. They and the men need suitable childcare which is why those I know have set ups like live in nanny plus au pair or arrangements with back up nanny services which my sister uses. Yes I know partners work long hours too, of course they do.

no its not xenia - Im all for assertive women and everyone realising their full potential but the potential isnt always 20 hours of chargeable minutes per day.

What would happen in your house if your nanny was sick/off/left you and you were in Lemur's situation on a Sunday?

Unacceptable for a kid to want its Mum or Dad when its ill?

anyway this isnt fair - Im going to let it drop now.

I wonder if Lemur went to her meetings

mis, with chickenpox you don't need a parent at home, of course you don't. If it gets really serious and there's a risk of blindness and it gest whisked into hospital then yes most fathers and mothers would go.

What would I do in l's situation. I am not her so I can't say, but as most people on the thread said you'd get that husband who thinks kicking a ball around a field is more important than her job doing his bit. I have often had that kind of demand. Usually I've had some childcare arrangements which mean I can do the work. I have never used a nursery. There are also sometimes mothers you know you can ask. Some people have relatives around. In my case I've 3 adult children but that's very unusual. It's like having 3 live in au pairs and I'm very lucky. What I think you have to try to do is find a solution, not cause a problem. So for example if those partners really want her in and they have childcare that day could she even ask to share it? This is why some big City places have a pool nanny who covers if your nanny is off sick because the loss to the firm of that employee's wages is huge but paying that nanny is tiny in comparison.

Another aspect is that, when my children are ill they want to be with me or dh, no one else, and we want to be with them so, for us, getting in a nanny etc. would not be a solution.

You must realise Xenia that not everyone wants to fob off THEIR reponsibilites onto other people. My parents have had their own kids and do help but not everone has relatives near or able.

WOnders why some people have kids....

misspinkcat I'm too late!

i think its not so much about whether lemur or her husband is more important but the committment - her dh has committed to playing as part of a team. Im assuming he doesnt get paid but the committment is there nonetheless. Which committment is the same for Lemur and her job generally MOn-Fri.

Iguess she must have worked something out as she hasnt posted today.

But in real life sometimes children can't have what they want. Anyway it's interesting to debate it.

For me the principal issue was there are some careers where there is a sacrifice you make in terms of hours for the financial rewards or future rewards and some men and women are happy to make that and others aren't. That's all there is to it (and my perennial point about why women accept unfairness at home).

So a weepy spotty kid crying for its' mum - outstretched arms and clinging to you.

"No" sayeth she woman Xenia "for I am a New Breed Of Woman".

Xenia, I would agree with you in many ways but having your mum or dad when you are 2 years old and poorly is not spoiling a child, IMO.

I also wonder if you have any commitments to other relatives, maybe elderly, and how you manage those. For example, I am involved in the care of two of my grandparents and another elderly relative, a mixture of admin, visiting etc. Do you do anything like that? My line of thought was that, ultimately you can hire a nanny to look after your children but who can cover other family duties? Just interested.

Yes, done that. Ex husband went into hospital over night when child had a fit - I was at a meeting in London that evening. I knew he was good with the children and was happy to trust to that. Earlier the nanny took my son in. Again I was content all was well. We make compromises all the time about who has our time. I have in 22 years spent masses of time with sick children of course - we're not talking black and white here - working parents who never deal with sick children but sometimes you have to put work first particularly in this kind of job

On parents when my mother was dying of cancer in 2004 we all visited as much as we could. We arranged care. It was very difficult. It's been a difficult few years, divorce, next year mother dies, then problems with my father - he has dementia which has involved a lot of visits and trips. But he worked very hard all his life and arranged substantial pensions which are at the moment paying for his day and night care. Life is hard for everyone. If you earn a huge load of money though a lot of these things do become easier. It would be silly to suggest otherwise.

been off line this afternoon - I am amazed at some of the opinions here - the line "there's a silent majority who work full time, love it" with kids? I'm afraid I don't agree - in my law firm every single female corporate assistant has been "encouraged" not to return - of the female corpporate partners 5 out of 6 are divorced and have live in nannies and the one that is married is past child bearing age - none mix work with the usual home life. These ladies all got made up pre kids in any event - having them first remains in most cases the end of the partnership track.

I agree that nannies rather then nurseries must be more practical but if you earn £80-100K post tax it does n't go far paying for mortage etc, nanny (£30K) and aupair (the nanny salary alone is over half the post tax income.)

While many women are career orientated personally I would not want to be at work for 12 hours a day 5 days plus a week - I don't see the point of having kids if that is the case - but that is my opinion only.

This whole thread reads very badly indeed for those who want to spend time with their kids and have a career - it just seems that you can't have both.

Have any lawyers on here managed to sort out any flexible working arrangements?

phew xenia, glad to see you climbed right back on that hobby horse, found your earlier reasonabless most disconcerting...... its the black and whiteness of your views that to my mind must make your world both much easier than most peoples and much harder too.

Poor Lemur when she comes back to find this thread, not exactly the constructive advice and support I'm sure she was hoping for by the end mostly due to Xenia to be frank.

Yes, in answer to someone's question (!) it's Bakers. Might not be the most profitable firm, but certainly a very happy place to be with low low low turnover. Again, I'm not a lawyer so of course come at it from a different perspective. I am, however, a Director and have the same kind of demands made of me as many fee-earners.

Hope Lemur hasn't read this thread and run for the hills! xx

not me meb.... still working on that one (see below)

talk to us lemur! how are you??

i think lemur is still at work... she went in this afternoon. i went over to see her first.

Meb - I think you can have both - but you have to be prepared to compromise if you do.

In effect, that probably does mean not being a Corporate Partner or director (or whatever the legal equivalent of a director in accountancy firm is) in a City Law firm - or at least Magic Circle law firm, unless you are prepared to live the kind of life that Xenia has described.

hi hc, didnt realise you know her in REAL LIFE! hope she's ok. emailed you yesterday... did you get it?