Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

A second Employment Tribunal, Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing, has just been heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and ended on Thursday 1 October 2026. It is possible that a decision will be handed down before Christmas of this year.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against three senior managers who were witnesses in the first Employment Tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Thread 65: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583663-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-65 29 September 2026 to 30 September 2026

Thread 66: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584074-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-66 30 September 2026 to 1 October 2026

Thread 67: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584523-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-67 1 October 2026 to ????

I have a recollection that when Upton was discussing treating patients who'd requested a female doctor he suggested that if a woman then refused treatment by him he might be minded to view that as transphobia. Which would mean that the patient would risking facing an investigation of being abusive. Does anyone else have a similar recollection?

Does the NHS investigate patients for being abusive? It doesn't sound like something there is a lot of resource for; and to what end?

Nope XX here, just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they have to be hiding something. I’ve been bullied by girls since I was a child, it was actually the reasons I started martial arts. I know exactly what herd mentality is having been the victim of it, I notice you don’t mention the fact I got hurt because of the drive for “privacy and dignity” does that not fit your narrative of woman are most vulnerable to men?

https://www.nhsfife.org/about-us/policies-and-procedures/general-policies/reduction-of-violence-and-aggression-at-work/

1.5 NHS Fife defines an incident of violence and aggression as:
“Any incident in which a member of staff or person working on behalf of NHS Fife is verbally abused, threatened or physically assaulted by a patient, member of the public, or another member of staff in circumstances relating to his or her employment”.

Privacy and dignity are enshrined in law as positive things. You won't get very far arguing they're not, no matter how much you feel they've hurt you as an idividual.

Doubtless a certain amount of poverty is good for the soul, and democracy lets people elect really terrible leaders. But generally it's accepted that increasing wealth, and elections are good things, too.

Actually I have been vulnerable post c section and my husband was sent home to protect privacy and dignity

Rephrase to
Actually I have been vulnerable post c section and my husband was sent home to protect the safety, privacy and dignity of other women.

That’s the reality of why it happens. Plus the demands and disruption men place on nurses. There are assaults, including sexual assaults on wards. These will mostly be men as assaulters. Look at the WRN report on hospitals.

They don't investigate in the way they would for staff. They simply place a flag on the chart - no appeal mechanism, no process for confirming it's justified or getting it removed if not, no need to even tell the patient. And abusive patients can be refused treatment.

I’m sorry you experienced such hostile unkindness post c section fortunately you did have an advocate in your husband not every patient does. However yours does seem a unique situation if I interpret your post correctly that you choose to present in usual circumstances as more masculine than feminine. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
We are talking here about the vast majority of women ( 51% of the population are women) who want sss. This is not herd mentality this is about personal choice and safety of millions of women worldwide. Women through lived experiences are mindful/fearful to their vulnerability they have to be. I don’t know any that aren’t. Unisex facilities provide little refuge for the vulnerable and only emboldens predatorial behaviours. When my adult daughter was in hospital an elderly large male patient clearly mentally disturbed bounced up and down on her bed, he was returned to the male ward, he came again sitting and bouncing up and down on her bed clearly not deterred by her distress and my and the nursing staff presence, again returned to the male ward. What if he’d had a right to be in the next bed to her doesn’t bear thinking about. There are far too many incidences of sexual violence in hospitals already without removing barriers to it. Fearful for one’s safety does not make for successful recoveries it just deters women from seeking treatment.

Article 1 states that all human beings "are born free and equal in dignity and rights".

The whole point of this argument is you are taking away one persons dignity in support of some else’s. My right to dignified care with appropriate support was taken away leading to an injury to protect someone else’s privacy from the male gaze 🤦🏻‍♀️

That is now being taken away from Transwomen on a massive scale as we can’t move away from the obsession that woman need to be protected from men! We don’t, we need to be protected from being physically harmed by another person or situations that arise because we don’t have support. In my opinion the quickest way we can get to a situation where everyone is treat with dignity and respect with appropriate support is to move away with the obsession of separating us by sex!

I am no different to my husband just because he has sex organs, stop thinking of this as a XY vs XX issue and think of it as a patient needs to be on appropriate ward for their clinical condition which also includes issues around gender identity.

if you are obsessed with protecting XX think about case where they identify as a man, they will also be forced to share a ward which doesn’t align with who they are.

Ok, so we make all spaces mixed sex. As men commit 98.8 % of violent attacks and 100% of rapes, how will this make women safer? What material benefit will making all spaces mixed sex have for women?

A TIF was put in a male psych ward and raped twice within hours of being put there. Do you think that was ok? That’s what you’re advocating for. Own it.

I am so sorry that happened to you. Maternity care can be woeful.

There used to be a regular debate about should men be allowed to sleep on maternity wards. I haven't seen it crop up in years. It might be worth searching for them and having a read.

I am no different to my husband just because he has sex organs,

Yes you are otherwise why were you on the maternity ward after a C-section and not him?

Men and women are different it is completely ludicrous to suggest they are not.

This is over anyway, the law is clear, separation by sex is necessary and normal. It's being enforced across the NHS. Done deal. Finished.

Men who do not wish to identify as men will be entitled to separate and respecful provision. They just cannot sacrifice all women to their gender beliefs.

The hospital failed to provide an adequate standard or care. Because they failed, you feel that you should have had the right to have a make partner there when the care should have been provided in the first place by hospital staff.

Should parents be allowed to walk into school willy nilly to support their children if they feel they're not getting the right teaching our support in school?

Well, yeah the TIF is a woman so just collateral damage as revealed by this from Anothercoffee:

That is now being taken away from Transwomen on a massive scale

ALL about the men, always, always all about the men.

@Anothercoffeeafter3 so if you are saying there is no difference between men and women apart from biology, then aren’t you erasing all transpeople? I mean, no one can change their biology, so what exactly are you saying transpeople transition from and to? Pretty transphobic to deny their transition isn’t it?

@KeepupKardigans I hope your daughter is okay. Yes and no I would say in a stereotype way I present as neither I’m equally happy in a male dominated world (my hobbies) but also enjoy fashion etc and don’t dress overly masculine but I do have multiple tattoos and will never wear heels give me my Docs any day.

I don’t lift to tone, I lift to build muscle which is where I have had negative comments in the past always from females.

My issue is people see the fact someone is male as more of threat just because of gender. My legs are very strong for example, so in your example if it was me I would also be a threat by my pure size regardless of my gender but could be in the next bed. What I’m trying to say is the threat is the person not the gender.

I’ve been to multiple self defence workshops over the years and it’s actually a weakness we have a population you would walk past the lone female who is waiting to grab your phone as you don’t see her as a threat but would cross the road to avoid the male waiting for his taxi. It’s why county lines started using kids because they aren’t as often suspected and easily manipulated.

As a country we seem to be taking a step back when it comes to our ideas around acceptance of differences.
Yes with the new rules I think we might see a few less incidents, but I also think people with gender issues or even just different outward appearances now won’t seek care and potentially die which is a much bigger problem.

In my eyes as people’s ideas around gender evolve which luckily is the case in the younger generations things will change it’s just a shame many people are going to be harmed to protect what is a rapidly dating views on gender, equality and privacy. I think we will see hospitals built with more private rooms (I would happily pay extra to have a private room with a sofa bed), a redesign of changing and toilet facilities and the younger generation rising up to challenge the laws that have been put in place over the recent publicity. It’s not going to be as cheap or easy as just accepting mixed sex but things need to change.

Im off to enjoy a late afternoon run (alone) but may pop back later. Thank you for not just jumping down my throat because im different and don’t share the majority view on here.

Good luck with that. You can't bookmark multiple posts on one thread on mumsnet

Also, of course, women saying men can't be women isn't transphobia so there's that too.

@nauticant your memory is correct. Upton was working in Scotland and had discussed with his medical supervisor whether he should involve the police about a "hate crime" when Sandie objected to the presence of a man in a woman's changing room. He may have suggested to the female patient that he should call the police about her "hate crime" in recognising him as male/ misgendering him. He was, probably still is, a very nasty man.

Why did he show up at all if the patient asked for a female doctor?

That alone would worry me if I were in her position. That he considered that even remotely acceptable. And that the hospital allowed him to is just as concerning. She knows from that that she'll get no support there if she objects.
And we all know how he behaves when he's questioned or confronted about this from what happened in Fife. I suspect he actually tried to persuade her that he was a woman at the very least. I can easily imagine the man I saw at the tribunal arguing with a vulnerable patient about his "rights"
We can extrapolate that his behaviour was concerning by the fact that the husband felt compelled to stay and guard his wife. This wouldn't have raised a complaint and made the papers if he had simply accepted that she wasn't comfortable and walked away. We may not have all the details but we all KNOW he didn't do that.

My issue is people see the fact someone is male as more of threat just because of gender.

No, women see the fact someone male is more of a threat because of his sex and the statistics bear that out. The sex class of males is a threat to the sex class of females that is sadly the reality.

How many rapes and serious sexual assaults,how many children being put at risk of those with nefarious intent towards children do you consider an acceptable number of collateral damage whilst we move onto this Utopia of yours where both sexes and all ages mix happily in all circumstances singing Cumbya?

You do realise that TW don't want mixed sex spaces don't you? They want access to single sex spaces for the sex opposite to them, they don't want to be in with men and women, just women.

There is no such thing as “cisgender”, the whole idea of letting men into women’s spaces is based on emotional arguments, not rational ones, and most women don’t share your views about mixed wards and prefer single sex ones. Hope that helps.

Those threads used to get quite heated. ISTR the lame, woeful “Women”’s Equality Party waded in on this issue by saying they wanted to fund chairs for the dads or some such bollocks. But many women shared awful experiences of men being allowed to stay overnight on maternity wards.

Nothing is being “taken away” from men who identify as women. They have no right to be in women only spaces. It’s not some great travesty that they’ve now, finally and belatedly, been told they can’t use women only spaces, because they are men. That is what most women want. Why do you think they shouldn’t have it?