Another BBC mess: "Do you think it’s right to tell transgender people which toilet to use?" Let's ask some men...

[BridgetYourFortyDaysAreUp]

https://genderblog.net/bbc-gender-apology-row/

From Nick Wallis' Genderblog:

On 6 August 2026, BBC Three Counties local radio station, which covers Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire, ran a half hour current affairs chat on the Jonathan Vernon-Smith Show. The midday item was posed as a question: “Do you think it’s right to tell transgender people which toilet to use?”

The first contributor put on air to talk about that question were Robin Moira White, a male barrister who claims to be a woman. Robin advocates for men to be able to use women’s toilets and does so himself. The next guest was Nora Padilla, a full-time policy officer at the campaign group TransActual, which also advocates for men to be able to use women’s toilets. Then we heard from “Michelle” from Watford. Like Robin, Michelle is a man who claims to be a woman and – surprise surprise – advocates for male use of female facilities....
[my bold]

And the story goes on. And gets more and more damning for the BBC. The useless, ridiculously activist, taxpayer-supported BBC... Still.

For the love of Mike, Nick hasn't done anything of the sort! 🙄As I told you earlier in the thread when you made the same accusation, all he has done is write a blog post about someone else making a complaint to the BBS about this unbalanced discussion programme and actually getting a proper apology from the BBC, which is almost a miracle in itself. Why are you making these snarky comments about a respected award-winning campaigning journalist? Is it because he isn't on your side of the argument?

That is exactly how the BBC is supposed to operate. Two sides to the story.

You can never really blend, though, because people, women especially, have very sensitive radars for the recognition of 'Sex'; and usually a very well developed 'creep' radar to boot. Growing up female your instincts do tend to get a lot of activation. People recognise a performance when they see one, even if they don't straight away clock what is going on.

“So if there is a (sensible) GC person ready to talk”

I am struggling to think of a non-sensible ‘GC’ person who would agree to discuss the topic on national media. Has there been someone in the past who comes to mind?

This⬆️
DH (who aims where he should, and also cleans up after himself) tells me how disgusting the men’s toilets are at his work. I feel for him having to use them.
DS has reported men’s facilities elsewhere with piss all over the floor.
I’m so glad we have separate facilities in the majority of places.

Do you have a response to my post asking why you get to decide whether women will worry or not, as opposed to the women themselves deciding this?

I'm also interested in your thoughts on the women for whom the possibility that you may be blending in and they may not recognise you as male may be a "worry" - such a worry, that they no longer feel able to access female toilets. They're out there.

I find it really telling which arguments get ignored and which get an answer. The "Helle's male relative isn't trans, hah!" and "So hormones don't do anything, then?" responses are so easy.

What about the bigger problem here - the denial of female autonomy itself in defence of your position, Ty? Helle asks about this, too.

I think men also see women as 'other' to them - even those that 'identify as' women. 'Woman' is an object they hope to attain by careful mimicry and the transposition of their personal imaginings about what is is to be a woman.

Most people will detect your 'otherness', maybe initially perceiving it as a bit weird or slighly odd; or a bit " off"; something not 'quite right' - but depending on the person, and the particular situation, they may not say anything overt. I see cross dressing men fairly frequently in a local supermarrket, but I've yet to say " Hey mate, who do you think you are kidding?". Maybe they leave still thinking they pass.

As PPs have said, this really is risible (or for the love of Mike - I like that!)

I don't honestly believe it was your point, as it's so desperate. I think it's is more flailing, like Ty's selective responses - but in this case, in response to one of those more difficult-to-challenge arguments.

No, Nick hasn't changed the entire landscape of BBC journalism in his blog post about another man's complaint.

No, BBC journalists aren't going to stop reporting GC voices because, having fulfilled their duty to reach out honestly and in good faith (which was the only issue in this case) for interviewees for the opposition, a number may sometimes reject the offer.

It's the reaching out honestly and in good faith that has to be done. It wasn't here.

I mean, that that even has to be explained... 🤯

A lot of transwomen - well, a fair number of men in general - tell us that Hunter Schafer is a goddess in human form and would never be taken for a man. Most women look at HS and immediately see a man. Do you think you "blend in" the way HS "blends in"?

This hunter Schaffer?

as always filtered posed photos are one thing, the moving and talking are another

So if my 80 year old mother spots you in the ladies she mustn't just slip out hoping you don't notice she should walk up to you and challenge you? Despite her fear of men in women's spaces turning her into a gibbering mess who can't speak?

But not just you any man with lady feels even when they are foot taller than her less than half her age and dripping with entitlement?

But let's move on from the toilets is there any female space you acknowledge you don't 'belong' in changing rooms? Hospital wards is there any point at which you have even a single niggling thought that your presence is inappropriate?

Exactly.

Schafer looks like a man who has undergone extreme body modifications. Particularly from the side but he has so many male body cues that are clearly visible.

Someone took one of his photos from online the other day and changed the hair to a short back and sides and he the male facial cues were all there still. Yet, he constantly gets held up as some kind of success story.

I really think that many male people really do believe that developed breast tissue and long hair makes a male person indistinguishable from a female person and that is as far as they look.

Even worse though was the creepiness of the implied tweet from Wu about how if PBs were more readily available there would be more 'Hunter Schafers' while describing being attracted to him...

Because that’s all thy see woman as, boobs, long hair and spinny dresses.

Except that there are rarely only two sides to a story. It’s this belief that equivalence provides insight and balance that has led the BBC away from being able to inform people about what it’s involved in current issues, with any degree of nuance

Do you honestly believe that 'female presentation' is having something that looks like breast tissue and then some magic happens when oestrogen is taken by men in quantities that are normally found in female people?

Did you ever stop to think about how fucking misogynistic it is to female people to consider estrogen some magic drug that will change a male person into a female person?

Did you ever do any fucking research into these treatments at all and think about the material reality of male people deliberately ingesting hormones to make extreme body modifications and what it actually does and doesn't do?

I work with people with transgender identities. Why the fuck would any of them think that I know that they are male or female if the subject is not relevant? They use gender neutral provisions and not single sex provisions as per the policy of the organisation I work with. If I speak to them, I am not using pronouns generally. I am saying 'you' etc.

If your criteria for 'blending in' ie 'passing' is that you are not misgendered in every interaction, you really need to reconsider your criteria because it is not going to give you any accurate indication of material reality. But ... then again, considering your posts here, would you even bother to consider that you are in the wrong with that assumption as with lots of other assumptions.

I remember seeing a picture of Hunter posing with his sister on social media and instantly clocking him despite the fact that he's turned to the side

https://x.com/schaferfiles/status/1896875759136113094

Even when you can only see a portion of his face full on, there's no doubt that he's a man

You always bang on about material reality and science, but then twist yourself into knots to ignore the very real effect hormones have on a trans woman. I’m not saying every single TW has changes, but for some it can be quite significant. All it takes is 5 minutes on a transition timeline community and you will see the huge variation, but you need to pretend that doesn’t exist because it doesn’t fit your beliefs

THIS!!

I'm confused where she says "it doesn't exist". (This is, indeed, easy to argue against).

What about what she actually says?

Fucking hell. I don't know the show so I don;t know the context, but I hope the violence of being "slapped" - full arm walloped really - by a transgender woman (ie an adult biological male) as opposed to an adult biological female was being intentionally made obvious in that scene.

What's your point? No one is saying there's no changes. We are simply saying that your body being different from where you started from is not the same thing as your body being where ours are.

And regardless of how peple may treat you now, living in the world as a male child and young adult forms you in ways that are very different to living in the world as a female child and youg adult.

DETECTING SEX CATEGORY BY GAIT STUDY

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2020.00320/full

Table 2 shows that sex can be identified from gait by the study cohort with 65% accuracy just from dots on the joints over a 3.8 second duration.

To be clear, 65% accuracy from dots over a less than 4 second duration! It was still over 60% accuracy from 0.4 seconds.

This is a fairly handy graphic. It is basic and is not showing q-angles but it communicates the basics.

Abstract
This paper explores in parallel the underlying mechanisms in human perception of biological motion and the best approaches for automatic classification of gait. The experiments tested three different learning paradigms, namely, biological, biomimetic, and non-biomimetic models for gender identification from human gait. Psychophysical experiments with twenty-one observers were conducted along with computational experiments without applying any gender specific modifications to the models or the stimuli. Results demonstrate the utilization of a generic memory based learning system in humans for gait perception, thus reducing ambiguity between two opposing learning systems proposed for biological motion perception. Results also support the biomimetic nature of memory based artificial neural networks (ANN) in their ability to emulate biological neural networks, as opposed to non-biomimetic models. In addition, the comparison between biological and computational learning approaches establishes a memory based biomimetic model as the best candidate for a generic artificial gait classifier (83% accuracy, p < 0.001), compared to human observers (66%, p < 0.005) or non-biomimetic models (83%, p < 0.001) while adhering to human-like sensitivity to gender identification, promising potential for application of the model in any given non-gender based gait perception objective with superhuman performance.

So what changes do hormones make to a male body that turn him into a woman? As far as I know, it’s boob growth, skin texture and fat distribution. Nothing else changes. Every cell in the body is still male. Are you saying a woman is just a man with softer skin and boobs 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣