Another BBC mess: "Do you think it’s right to tell transgender people which toilet to use?" Let's ask some men...

[BridgetYourFortyDaysAreUp]

https://genderblog.net/bbc-gender-apology-row/

From Nick Wallis' Genderblog:

On 6 August 2026, BBC Three Counties local radio station, which covers Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire, ran a half hour current affairs chat on the Jonathan Vernon-Smith Show. The midday item was posed as a question: “Do you think it’s right to tell transgender people which toilet to use?”

The first contributor put on air to talk about that question were Robin Moira White, a male barrister who claims to be a woman. Robin advocates for men to be able to use women’s toilets and does so himself. The next guest was Nora Padilla, a full-time policy officer at the campaign group TransActual, which also advocates for men to be able to use women’s toilets. Then we heard from “Michelle” from Watford. Like Robin, Michelle is a man who claims to be a woman and – surprise surprise – advocates for male use of female facilities....
[my bold]

And the story goes on. And gets more and more damning for the BBC. The useless, ridiculously activist, taxpayer-supported BBC... Still.

Oh... really?

So you have heard all this before from me by interacting with me, and you still don't understand consent and safeguarding?

Sounds more like you, personally, are tying yourself in knots to deny that you access female single sex provisions without the consent of female people and you understand that you are doing it, but try to justify it any way you can.

Since you seem to need it very clearly spelt out:

Having something resembling breast development as a male makes NO difference to whether you are male or female. Male people can still have something resembling breast development for many other reasons.

and this too:

Taking hormones in female quantities as a male person does not make you female or give you access to female single sex provisions!

It is fucking irrelevant to what degree you have changed your male body. It is still male and the male body cues are still distinguishable even with surgery and hormones.

How about this also, male breast development is never female breast development!

A male person can do many things to his breasts, but they will never be the interactive feeding system that female breasts are.

If a male person's misogynistic view is that acquiring something that looks similar to a female breast is 'blending in' and 'passing', they really are that ignorant about the realities of the the female body they claim to have.

Each post and each statement underlines that ignorance.

Tell you what....

List the exact and detailed changes that male people's bodies undergo with estrogen ingested at female levels.

Shall I start the list?

Male breast development that resembles female breast development but is not female breast development. ✔

Soft skin ✔

A penis that doesn't taste or smell like a penis when testosterone is not replaced by estrogen ✔

Fat redistributed around the body if that male person decides to not undergo fitness training ✔

Please, Ty, list the rest of these changes for us all to see and be educated on.

Then please describe how each of these makes a male person female including the differences then between male people taking hormones purely for identity purposes and all those male people who are estrogen treatment for other reasons....

More about hips .... including a diagram showing q angles

https://archive.ph/u4oSa

THE LIST OF THINGS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN FACIAL 'FEMINISATION' SURGERIES

www.thelondontransgenderclinic.uk/price-list/

So the facial features that a male needs to change to better simulate a female's face starts with the following (alphabetically listed):

Brow lift
Cheek enhancement
Chin reduction / shaping
Eye feminisation
fat grafting
Forehead / brow contouring
Hairline lowering
Jaw shaping
Rhinoplasty (this may also include the change to the nasal columella to around 95 degrees which is different to 'male', removing a normally bulbous nasal tip, )
Thyroid shave / Adams apple reduction
Upper lip lift (I wonder if this is to give the 'v' which is a female trait vs the 'u' of males. OR could be combined with the rhinoplasty to change the space between the nose and lip which is shorter in females than males according to many cosmetic surgery sites. I guess if you shorter this you also emphasise that nasal columella angle to be more like a female angle)

I can only assume that the image attached is an aspirational before and after.

I cannot quite understand posters who seem to be determined to tell us that sex cannot be intuitively and quite accurately understood from unsurgically altered male faces. I am quite sure that Sal Grover could come and tell us what her algorithm measures as it is rather accurate which is why a transitioned male took her to court regarding access to Giggle.

So, combined with face and general skeletal proportions such as males having bigger heads and longer arms and legs, bigger hands and feet, different angles of bones in hips/legs etc, I suspect that some posters are perhaps really not very observant about the specifics of male faces and anatomy.

I also think that seeing the self published 'success' stories of these surgeries, they are not really successful. They certainly don't modifying the many other skeletal differences.

There are lots of things that you can do to your body that have a significant impact. None of them enable you to change sex.

A man with breasts is not a woman. He doesn't walk, talk, or look like a woman.
A man with long hair is not a woman. A man with slightly rounded hips is not a woman. A man who removes his balls and/or penis is not a woman.

A man who adopts what he thinks are feminine mannerisms is not a woman.

A man who alters his voice is not a woman.

A man is not, and can not ever be, a woman. It's about the most defining thing about him that one can be sure of.

No amount of hormones, make up, filters, lighting, styling or clothing will ever make him a woman.

https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market

Sex Reassignment Surgery Market size was valued at USD 722.2 million in 2023 and is set to register growth at 11.4% CAGR from 2024 to 2032.

Key Market Drivers

• Increasing prevalence of gender dysphoria
• Rising awareness among the transgender population regarding sex change surgeries
• Increase in sex change surgery volume, globally

Challenges

• High cost of the procedures
• Rise in incidence of sex change regret
• Risks associated with surgical procedures

I think you are assuming that Nick Wallis has a far greater influence over the media than he actually has.

But, what exactly is the problem? In this example the problem is that the Sex Matters were willing to talk. It somebody isn't prepared to participate, then normal practice is to say that they were given the opportunity to take part, but didn't wish to do so.

Some musical respite

That 'sex change regret' won't be a problem for the surgeons, of course.

More ops! More money!

The people closest to me would probably disagree with you

Well, they can disagree all they like - they'll just be wrong.
Human beings cannot change sex.

More evasion, now as a semantic game.

There's a class of people who are materially different to you, and have a right to distinguish themselves from you. Those material differences are pretty inarguable evidence that it's in their interests to be permitted to do so. Even if these weren't, they should retain this right.

Your comment above suggests that you and yours would, instead, remove this right: remove their word, their language, their capacity for clear, collective self-advocacy.

This is in line with your other posts.

But telling us there are people who would redefine "women" and reallocate a significant proportion of women's resources accordingly still doesn't argue the case for doing this convincingly.

The people closest to you may think all sorts of things about you, but their belief does not change your sex.

I suspect it's more accurate to say that they are using 'woman' to mean something that has nothing to do with sex. They are free to do so, but we still need to define humans who are adult and female in law and medicine.

I see.

Yes. We have had a poster previously who used this line.

It is very familiar and still is not relevant in any way except that some people will choose to affirm your chosen identity.

Any man could take wrong sex hormones and possibly show the 'very real effect' they have on him. It wouldn't make him trans though unless he said he was trans. Ditto any of the surgeries that a minority of men undertake. He can wear the clothes usually associated with the opposite sex. He can plaster himself with make-up, none of this would make him trans (or even be necessary). All that is required is the words, they are all that is essential.

Incidentally I've had an entertaining digression into goat and monkey glands*. The quacks and qualified doctors pushing these never claimed they turned their marks into goats or monkeys. So they were arguably more honest than today's gender doctors.

*there was a slight George Hamilton cul-de-sac. He's a) still alive! and b) was besties with Imelda Marcos!!

Are you always this suspicious of the people you’re interacting with?

I’m pretty sure we haven’t but here is my
background if you want to check: transitioned early 20s, had SRS as soon as possible 2 years later, I’m now late 20s and living an unremarkable quiet life. I have a small group of friends I met post-transition and we haven’t discussed my history. Unlike most trans people, I haven’t experienced any harassment in public.

What do you mean 'check'? Like everyone on here, you're a random poster on the internet.

Any claim you make is immaterial, as is whether or not you claim you are able to deceive people.

No human being can change sex.

Some people disagree that the world is round, that evolution is real and that the moon landings were real. People can believe lots of batshit things. Some even believe men can be women. . .

Ty, the people close to you don't want to hurt you, so they lie.

We are not, so are happy to tell the truth.

So your drug regime may have softened bits around the edges, but we still see you.

Well gosh… weren’t you the one who said ‘You always bang on about material reality and science, but then twist yourself into knots to ignore the very real effect hormones have on a trans woman.”

I consider it a good indication that perhaps we have interacted before since you made that point

Still, it doesn’t detract from what I said.

We have heard that almost exact statement before from posters. It is irrelevant whether you have people who are willing to affirm your identity as to whether you ‘pass’ or not.

If you only listen to people who are emotionally involved with you, you are unlikely to be receiving unbiased opinions or to be getting information that doesn’t fit your personally defined requirements for your mental health.

You don’t seem to be able to answer questions beyond your doubling down that you must surely pass because people are politely going along with what they believe you are likely to need.

For instance, who the fuck do you think arbitrates who is ‘female enough’ for any male to access a female single sex provision when it is fucking clear that any male person demanding access to that space knowing that there are laws around that access that excludes them as male and that many female people don’t agree with any male person over about 8 years old using a female single sex provision? Do you understand how fucking misogynistic that arbitration would be and why?

Have you ever once considered that people do understand you are male but have presented yourself in a way that leaves no doubt that you consider yourself female so no one is willing to act in anyway but going along with your identity?

And how about that list of ‘changes’ that want us to acknowledge that you and others believe make any male somehow ‘female’ because they chose to take oestrogen?

Its a very male position, I say it is so, therefore it is true and you lesser beings, women, must agree with me.

We don't.

Are you always this suspicious of the people you’re interacting with?

Women spend a whole lifetime learning to risk assess. We get so used to checking to see if there is a man behind, walking at a safe distance, checking the train carriage, scanning the area, noting the exits, carrying keys in hand, keeping our heads down, learning the body language, the tells, the red flags. Becomes second nature.

Calling a woman 'suspicious' is a familiar taunt. It echoes 'smile more' and 'what's the matter?'.

I know right?

As if any of that information changes the situation at all. I think we are seeing the effect of what happens when so many people feel compelled by so called kindness to use female language for a male person.

This is the impact. And it is causing harm to female people collectively and on an individual level. Because a male person feels fully entitled to access female single sex provisions because he somehow thinks extreme body modifications makes him deserving of that access. And no one has said ‘no’ to his face.