Wanting to discuss trans people with non gender critical folks

[Taztoy]

I’ve been on another thread - and other threads - and I’d like to talk to anyone who believes that trans women are women and trans men are men.

I don’t understand how that works and I’ve tried on other threads to get engagement , and it hasn’t worked.

so. I’m starting a thread.

I promise I am asking genuinely and I really do want to debate.

I don’t understand how I can tell if a trans woman is genuine.

I don’t understand how the laws could be written to make it work.

I don’t understand how it works as it competes with sex based rights.

I will probably regret starting this but I’d really like to understand

So you only want answers from those who say you get to choose what sex you tell people you are?

You cannot change your sex and so no transwoman is genuine.

What do you mean by ‘genuine’?
What do you mean by ‘make it work’ - make what work?
What do you mean by ‘competes with sex-based rights’?

No. I knew I wasn’t expressing it right.

I am firmly gender critical but I don’t believe I’m hateful or nasty or even transphobic.

I want to try to square the circle of competing rights.

im very tired and wrung out and I have a migraine so this probably wasn’t a good idea

That’s my view. But there are people who believe that they are actually women - so how does that work on a cognitive level? How do you know?

im autistic and i just don’t get it

What do you mean “square the circle of competing rights”?
do you think males should have the right to force themselves into female spaces?

There are also people who think the earth is flat.

No. Absolutely not. Have you read any of my posts?

True.

im always impressed by how well you cope with some of the things you get asked when you talk about what's happened to you in FWR

I hope the thread goes well x

I am a victim of a rape so violent I can’t describe it here it will be deleted. I’m upset and angry and I want sex based rights to mean sex based rights because it matters to me to have single sex provision where it is legally allowed.

but I’ve been reading here and Reddit and I don’t understand how people can believe that men become women and women become men.

and there was a thread here that became about how people on FWR didn’t discuss alternative views so I thought I’d start one to try to discuss.

sorry. Bad idea.

It works on the same way that betty from basildon believes that she is Cleopatra, Queen of the Nile and has the power to rule the land and put people to death.
do you think betty should get to kill her neighbour Bill in line with her belief?

I don’t think anyone should kill anyone in general. Someone tried to kill me. He failed. I don’t use those sort of analogies as they are just a little bit too close to home. I hope you understand.

Nobody truly believes that a person can change their sex, even the ones who swear blind that they do.

@Taztoy I wonder if people haven't recognised your name. I did. Like a PP, and a CSA survivor, I'm impressed at how brave you are sharing your story. I've shared mine many times under various names to try and show why single sex spaces are so important.

As for your actual question, I've never heard anything beyond "because they say they are". Which is nonsense. So I'm joint in on the thread to hopefully finally get an answer.

Thank you for understanding.

im sorry you experienced the same. It sucks.

edit. Similar. Not the same. I don’t mean to compare yours is so much worse. I’m so sorry.

I don't think it does work, I think trans women or men just really, really want to be so they try really, really hard to make others believe they are

But no one can make anyone believe anything. And how does you know if they say they believe it that they actually do?

You could ask 20 different TRAs and get 20 different answers.

“a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman”

”a trans woman has a female brain and a male body “

”a trans women has a deep, long lasting feeling of being in the wrong body”

“a trans woman has lowered his testosterone to a certain level and/or has his genitals removed”

The explanations go on and on.

No such thing as "worse" when it comes to sexual abuse. Victims are victims.

Usually the only people from the other side who want to engage are people who want to “educate” you, which means you’re taken as some ignorant fool who hasn’t yet heard the amazing arguments such as “Do you know clownfish can change sex?” and “Blue used to be a colour of girls and pink for boys” amongst other such intellectual gems. As soon as you push back and challenge them, they’ll accuse you of not playing fair etc

Well precisely, and a lot of people don't believe them hence why so many GCs exist.

But many do believe them and will stand next to them shouting about bigotry, all the while the person they're standing with is trying to deceive everyone. I do wonder how many of these people would stand with someone who walked around on all 4s everywhere because they believed they were a cat, or would they think they were a bit bonkers

I also really really want to talk about what he did. But I can’t do that here. And that upsets me. I’m silenced. Which means I can’t explain just how important it is to me.

but then maybe trans individuals feel it’s just as important to them to access spaces of the opposite sex as what they were born.

so how do you square that circle of competing rights?

Edited having reread a few posts that make mine irrelevant.

You haven’t read my posts have you? Never mind on any other thread but even here on this thread.