Wanting to discuss trans people with non gender critical folks

[Taztoy]

I’ve been on another thread - and other threads - and I’d like to talk to anyone who believes that trans women are women and trans men are men.

I don’t understand how that works and I’ve tried on other threads to get engagement , and it hasn’t worked.

so. I’m starting a thread.

I promise I am asking genuinely and I really do want to debate.

I don’t understand how I can tell if a trans woman is genuine.

I don’t understand how the laws could be written to make it work.

I don’t understand how it works as it competes with sex based rights.

I will probably regret starting this but I’d really like to understand

What does that have to do with my post? I don’t expect you to let people mock your son, obviously.

I stand very strongly against any bio man being in these spaces because they house vulnerable women or women in a position of temporary vulnerability (eg with no or few clothes on) And also because there have been far too many instances of manipulative men blatantly abusing the trans self-ID rights, to gain access to these places.

What baffles me is why no trans women are vociferously up in arms that this happens. No transwomen are clamouring on social media in support of safe spaces for bio women, no trans women seem publically able to compute that there is a danger here, nor will stand, as fellow women, against the abuse of their rights in order to protect the people they say they are. This genuinely baffles me. If there are groups of transwomen - not lone outliers - who do publically suppport the protection of bio women I'd love to know about them.

There are a few, but they have generally been on the receiving end of a tremendous amount of abuse.

Some also advocate for inclusion for certain men (usually including themselves) and exclusion of others.

The reason they dont stand up for women is because they are men.

Yes, someone close to me is a trans ally, and the main difference between their thinking and mine is what group of people we have most sympathy for. Unfortunately, once you've decided you have more sympathy for trans people, the removal of women's rights tends to follow. So I can say why it's not OK to treat trans-identified men as women, mostly because of the bad effects on women, and the sympathy for trans people kicks in and my concerns don't matter so much.

So we largely agree on the theoretical definitions, but can't reach any mutual understanding on the practicalities.

Not always the case. The two very definite trans allies I know are both women.