terrifying, dangerous, abusive "advice" on r/transgenderuk

[mardirousse]

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1vo4oqz/hypothetical_situation/.

Dad wants to prevent his effeminate 15 year old boy from developing an adam's apple or deep voice, so "hypothetically" asks if he could back and forth to France for puberty blockers.

gets loads of "support", told he's a wonderful father, advised to put the lad on diy estrogen instead as it's more appropriate "at that age" (15!).

Surely platforms can't allow this, legally! it's so dangerous. I'm really upset. His poor little lad.

Marie literally posted a link to the studies on desistence - did you not follow it?

This is an interesting and relatively new one to be aware of

https://segm.org/gender-dysphoria-diagnosis-desistance-germany

that’s absolutely shocking, isn’t it? And every parent who has affirmed their child down the path to transition is guilty of ignorance and naïveté at best, child abuse at worst.

Susie Green's example is a good one, actually. Because here you had a four year old child expressing that they were a girl. Her parents did nothing until she was six,

Jackie Green's parents took away all his toys. All his dolls. He was crying on the phone to his grandma asking for a doll for Christmas, because his parents had taken them all away. The wrong toys for a boy.

Susie Green's TED talk was a masterclass in showing how homophobia produces a child who thinks they must be the opposite sex.

Funnily enough, it's nowhere to be found on the Internet anymore.

Gone. But fortunately, not forgotten.

Edited to add that Jackie Green was taken by his mother to be castrated on his 16th birthday in Thailand. Because it is (and was) completely illegal in Britain.

And, subsequent to the outrage, that op is completely illegal in Thailand too.

if people are going to try and attempt to use Susie Green to bolster their argument, they should really be familiar with what she said.

yep. I wonder how Jackie Green is doing these days. 12 is no age to make permanent irreversible changes.

If that child had been born to tolerant parents who didn't care which toys he chose, he could now be a happy, healthy gay man living a medication-free life, with a normal-sized gay male dating pool and able to father children of his own.

Apart from anything else, who the bloody hell takes away all their children's dolls? It's horrifying. Even without the reasoning that they were girls' toys. A kid comes home from school, and all his bloody dolls and 'wrong toys' are gone!

Children can feel the loss of a doll their whole life. It's awful.

I have read stuff written by the mother herself that clearly indicates the father was homophobic.

Have you zero understanding of just what a child will do and say to keep the love and nurture of their parents? They created the gender dysphoria in that 4 year old by disapproving of his toy choices, no doubt among other behaviours.

What choice has Jackie got now other than to continue to identify as female? Their genitals were removed at 16, in Thailand to evade the law, after years of hormone blocking treatment which prevented them developing as male.

Susie Green's TED talk was a masterclass in showing how homophobia produces a child who thinks they must be the opposite sex.
Funnily enough, it's nowhere to be found on the Internet anymore.

Nothing is ever forgotten on the Internet. Someone always keeps the receipts. This is Susie Green's deleted TED Talk along with a full transcript.

x.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1818762138435064228

He might even be like the happily married father of 3 that I once knew, just a very camp heterosexual man. Quite rare but they do exist.

Thank you, I knew I had read it, I'll bookmark that.

You're so right. Pesky legislators prevent people from getting their own limbs amputated and that just means they end up with monsters like Marius Gustavson! We should all just let other people do exactly what they want with their own bodies at any age, and the NHS should be providing services on request.

But that doesn't measure desistence of trans identity, but a measure of administrative engagement with a public health system. We see in the UK how many trans people disengage from the NHS system and pursue private treatment options. The same is the case in Germany where queues are long and treatment options can be limited, although not as bad as in the UK. So yes, some people who have gender dysphoria will abandon the public system to find treatment, as they do in many countries where trans healthcare is heavily rationed and difficult to access.

It also includes people who have a diagnosis of GID but do not, and never have, pursued pharmacological or surgical treatment, or who have experienced very short term GID - both of which are irrelevant to the question of desistance among those with persistent gender dysphoria who pursue medical treatment.

And finally, it is a study taken literally at a time when there was transition from ICD-10 to ICD-11 diagnostic codes for gender issues.

So come back when you can tell me how many of that 60% who 'desisted':

-never had persistent gender dysphoria in the first place;
-never sought or accessed pharmacological treatment in the first place;
-continued to identify as trans notwithstanding not ticking a box on their health insurance form
-where they were seeking medical treatment, abandoned the public insurance route for the private route due to delays, lack of choice etc

What Datun said.

Desistance used to be 100% until someone had the bright idea of giving PBs & cross-sex hormones to pre-pubescent children.

The bit you omitted was that her 'girls toys' were taken away for a 'few weeks'. From the point of birth until she was six years old, with the exception of that few weeks, she had a strong message from Susie Green that its ok to be a boy who likes 'girly' things.

Sorry, but people don't develop a trans identity that persists for more than thirty years because of an, admittedly awful, message for a few weeks that they are not allowed to play with toys aimed at the opposite sex.

No it didn't. That's nonsense.

It was never zero. Trans people have always been around and people did and still do go through puberty and come out the other side wishing they could change their sex.

Until adults started giving PBs & cross-sex hormones to children there were no "trans kids". Where were all the "trans kids" a hundred years ago? There weren't any "trans kids" sixty years ago when I was a teenager. These "trans kids" are a modern invention.

You have absolutely no idea how long that trans identity would have persisted if that child had not had puberty blockers at 12, their genitals removed at 16 and cross sex hormones ever since.

If that person were given the appropriate male hormones now instead of female ones, they might well decide they were a man after all. Too late when your penis is gone, of course.

Is left handedness also a modern invention?

No "trans people" have not always been around. So called "trans people" are a modern invention created by cross-sex hormones, genital surgery & boob jobs. These medical interventions have only been available in recent decades.

Of course I have a good idea, because there is research that talks about the indicators for desistence and persistence, and Jackie Green met most of the criteria for factors linked to persistence.

This is classic conversion therapy mindset. A thirty-something year old person is assumed to not know their gender identity or how they want to live their life. If only you could have drummed it out of them early enough they might have lived 'happily' as a cisgender person. But that is rubbish. Jackie Green continues to be a trans person. This is an example of someone for whom the research was spot on - persistent GD is more likely to persist permanently, as it has for her.

There certainly were teenagers with body dysmorphia who did not grow out of that dysmorphia after puberty.

I would personally call those genuinely trans teenagers but you can't tell which are which until after puberty and experiencing adult life.

Has anyone explained yet why this mental belief one should have been the opposite sex is somehow magically the same as actually being the opposite sex?

No, didn't think so.

Is left handedness also a modern invention?

Of course not. About 10% of the population are left-handed & this is true throughout history. For example it's well known that Leonardo de Vinci was left-handed. In any case those who are left-handed don't require any surgery or cross-sex hormones so I am not sure why it's relevant to this discussion.