Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

Don’t be so silly

I know your side of this debate seems to have an epipen level of allergy to defining the terms of your invective arguments, but could you please explain what "real feminism" is in this context? I'd hate to think I'd been missing the point entirely for more than half a century.

And we are sure as hell unhappy that your particular brand of rabid pitchfork waving reflects very badly on real feminists and makes it much, much harder to get our views and opinions listened to.

You think that's bad? Try being deeply, thoroughly ashamed.

Ashamed to be associated with people who piss around in public.
Ashamed to be associated with people who encourage the abuse and killing of other people.
Ashamed to be associated with people who refuse to discuss anything (#NoDebate)
Ashamed to be associated with people who don't even acknowledge the basics of biology.
Ashamed to be associated with people who turn on innocent, extremely vulnerable people who commit the crime of not being trans anymore.
Ashamed to be associated with outright homophobic people.

Ashamed, ashamed, ashamed. Literally everywhere I turn, TRAs make me ashamed of being trans.

And no, it's not just online. You have no idea how often I discuss being trans with someone in real life, and after a while of calm, happy discussion with me, they confess in a small voice that they once knew another trans person, who was dramatic and unpleasant. TRAs suck and make my life harder, so guess what? I too am unhappy. Unhappy and ashamed. Great.

No, you do not. You tell yourself you do because it's comforting...
You are not standing up for women.
You are not speaking out for women.
You are using feminism (and, by extension, diluting its importance) as an excuse to push a hard-line agenda designed solely to attack marginalised groups of people.
For shame.

Oh good, you came back to me @KindViper and in so doing showed for a second time that you have no concept of the irony of your words. Here you show us again that TRAs are unable to conceive critical thinking and that instead their duty is to transplain to we poor 'less capable' TERFs exactly what it is that we are doing, how wrong it is and how we should bend to their delusory will. Thank you for proving the point that the Trans handmaidens are so glaringly resolute in their inability to listen, engage or otherwise divert from their 'We are right and everyone else including actual biologists is wrong, so there' narrative.

The shame is on you.

FWIW in terms of posting on other fora, I'm proud to say that I've gone beyond that and instigated some small change in my professional field. Some of us who I suppose you would describe as 'not less capable' are able to articulate and induce effectively without resorting to jumping up and down and screaming about our 'rights' whilst simultaneously riding roughshod over the rights of 51% of the free-thinking population.

I’m a bit disappointed we haven’t narrowed down the cult dress code

that does feel like the most pressing matter arising from this thread

I vote against dress codes!

First because I already had to follow one when I was in my previous (religious) cult, so I'm done with those, thank you very much!

And second because it would have to be compatible with my own Trans Dress Code, and I don't want to complicate matters even more.

im thinking something like this (when / if the picture is approved)

Finally! Thank you.

... All I can say is, "I suppose that's better than bad wigs and pink leggings" 😂

But I still vote NO 😝

I can't do tassels, because of the dog.

🤣

laugh emoji required!

I am in the Croc wearing, Tunnock's eating cult on Mumsnet.

It'll need a cardie for the winter months, I can't be having with the cold at my age.

Nope. Eating Tunnocks while dressed in white is a hazardous enterprise.

Brexit is often co-opted into lists of how the far right broke liberalism.
There are plenty of Remain voices who still say it was a Putin plot, and to be added to the list of things that have moved us in a far right direction.

These are some of the key indicators of a cult:
Absolute Authoritarianism: I don’t think there is a leader of either movement that has absolute authority which indicates neither “side” is a cult.
No Questioning Allowed: I’d say GC asks A LOT of questions that TRAs won’t even allow into conversation - so one point for them, none for us
Exclusive Truth: I’m happy to accept that people have different beliefs from me, and that people might believe they are the wrong gender/sex. I don’t think less of them for that, they just have a different belief system but that system shouldn’t infringe on my legally enshrined rights. I’m not sure TRAs have the same openness, but I don’t know so I’ll call this no points for anyone.
Social Isolation: I don’t think GC people on the whole would cut out and isolate a trans family member. I think in most cases they would disagree with them but accept they have a different view (with a caveat that there will always be people who cut off family members who are different, but I think that is borne of bigotry not being GC specifically - I imagine someone disowning a trans child is just as likely to disown a gay child). TRAs absolutely to advocate for cutting off anyone who doesn’t agree (punch/kill a TERF anyone?) so two for TRAs, none for GC.
Financial Secrecy: irrelevant here, because they are not actual organisations.
Fear of the Outside:
Never Good Enough: doesn’t apply to either camp
Punishing Those Who Leave: I wouldn’t shun a GC person who became a TRA, but I haven’t see any well received detransitioners by the TRA community…
Shared Grievances: I think this is true of both TRA and GC movements
Initial Love Bombing: I dont think GC would love bomb, I’m not trying to sell you to my side of the argument. There are lots of tales of people getting entangled in a trans movement because of the love and acceptance they were made to feel.

Walking around jingling all the time would play havoc with my tinnitus.

Cults don't even ask the question.

Of course we're not a bloody cult. We argue about everything. We try to steel man the opposing position. We try over and over to get advocates of the opposite position to articulate it clearly.

And literal lol at we don't listen. Your problem is we do listen, and ask follow up questions, and try to reflect back what you're saying in our own words in more concise ways. All the stuff that makes up good, active listening and IF you had a case would convince us.

I am a trained mathematician, reasoning with assumptions that may not be true is bread and butter work. I have no problem at all understanding a position that is founded on basic beliefs I disagree with. But what I will do is expect it to stand up to basic internal logic like no circular definitions.

Hilarious that you call us a cult when you're the one so obsessed with 'trans' that you don't post on any other topic except that.

I think it’s highly illuminating

Biological facts, Supreme Court rulings are all as nothing if they contradicted the great trans agenda.

It took me a while to understand what gametal was. I kept reading it as gay metal. Clearly I am less capable.

I vote for no crocs (sorry Boily), no white, and no tassels (I have too many cats), but am open to a uniform Esperanza if it's black. Do we get free Tunnocks? That's the most important thing.

“We don't even especially like you.”

🤣🤣🤣

I know. I'm absolutely heartbroken over this. I've had to go and sob in the corner of the playground, all by myself.

I’m definitely less capable but I’m 100% sure that people can’t change sex and men need to stay out of women’s single sex spaces and activities.

I don’t think I’m in a cult. Is there a way of finding out?

"Women are 51% of the human race.
GC cultists are not 100% of women."

Has it ever occured to you that not all sex realist/gender critical people are women? You need to add a significant section of the male population as well.