Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

Why does this surprise you?

Once upon a time you pretty much automatically got banned for merely suggesting that gender identity was cult like.

I really pushed back on this because it was important to see what was going on in terms of linguistic use, coercion, propaganda techniques and straight up bullying and doxxing.

So this subject is a sore subject on MN, in part because even MNHQ got this issue very wrong at one point. As much as I'm thankful they did allow some discussion within limitations. These issues are key methods of control around the abuse of women more generally so actually it's really important to be able to identify them as they go way beyond the trans discussion.

Trans activism definitely peaked in the UK around the time of Lily Madigan in terms of how far the madness went. It was a pivotal point because it's where it became so embedded and you risked your job and career to speak the truth - that's authoritarian not liberal. Authoritarian loss of free speech is central to any cult. It wasn't until Forstater that things started to change.

It is good at this point that we can talk about this relatively freely compared to where we were.

It's massively important that we state the history and reflect on the timeline and keep this as part of the narrative rather than allowing activists to control the narrative because it shows how this progressed and why things have gone the way they have.

Madigan was a middle class male uni student who campaigned using bullying techniques, secret Facebook groups which included politicians against working class women with a long socialist agenda and track record. Some of whom were lesbians. The case was as far removed from the far right narrative as it's possible to be. It was way before JKR spoke.

The whole mantra of No Debate was central to everything that happened. It was absolutely about suppression of concerns.

See my response to your @CohensDiamondTeeth above.

You both know what the sort of language used to dismiss women sounds like, and you were using it.

I know you ‘thought I was a bloke’. You might also want to think why you made that assumption. Are you SURE you’re gender critical? You actually seem quite invested in how people present to you and what that might mean their biological sex is 🤷‍♀️

Did he actually manspread? He certainly displayed his thighs by wearing an almost non-existent skirt, and I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing, but my recollection of his behaviour in that debate was that he crossed his legs throughout.

"You DO know exactly what I mean about the sort of language used to dismiss women."

Yes I do know what you mean. Sexist language used by men to dismiss women.

One woman saying to another "don't get your knickers in a twist" doesn't count IMO.

The phrase is used for and by both sexes widely across the UK, so it's not a sexist phrase solely used by men to dismiss women, although some sexist men may also use the phrase I'm sure.

It does your brand of whatever you're calling "feminism" no harm to admit that either I don't think?

"I haven’t ’told off’ IW, but I also haven’t ’told off’ JKR. I am not a person sending her any kind of harassment!"

And right back at you, "you DO know exactly what I mean" when I asked that question, rephrased from my original iteration because of the apparently necessary repetition to illicit some kind of answer.

So by your deflection I can safely assume that I'm right and all your disapprobation and accusations are reserved only for women.

It's just age old sexism, whether you'll admit it or not.

You might not mean to tone police but in order to cover yourself from earlier saying that the phrase "don't get your knickers in a twist" was "misogynistic", when it's clear that it's not, now you are tone policing.

You can be friendly and warm as you like, I'll enjoy a laugh at something I find funny wherever, but no one has to be besties with you, I might even find you quite pleasant company when you aren't supporting men eroding women's rights. Here though, in this thread, you are supporting men eroding women's rights, I don't find that particularly fluffy or friendly. Not that you need to be either of those things to post here, be free to say whatever you want to say however you like (within the guidelines of course).

Edited to add the bit in bold. I'm actually not tone policing you see.

Sure, I agree, it's preposterous that GC is described as a cult.
Effectively it's the mainstream position socially, the reality position scientifically, and the position most supported by critical thinking philosophically.
As an attack, it's a form of pedantry by TRAs to deflect, very much DARVO.
It goes together with this new line of "argument" I've seen multiple times, that in the pre-culture wars days, trans was an everyday phenomenon, accepted across the broad swathe of women, and men.
Only the growth of the alt right culture war with JKR and X at the forefront has the cult of GC bigotry taken hold of the narrative.
So, consistent with TRAs calling GC and the likes of MN women as a cult, these attitudes were marginal in some imagined recent era where more or less trans were accepted and integrated.
This level of cosmic misdirection and sheer bloody minded wishful thinking is off the scale.

I've done my best to check through all of the (many, many) posts that were added since I last checked the thread. I didn't see any evidence at all of mammals being able to change sex.

I guess the #SadTimes continue.

And of course, many women (old style cunty ones) prefer trousers because, among other reasons, then we can cross our legs.

Nope, that's just Your opinion on the language I was using.

"Your" @CohensDiamondTeeth . Do you think I own other posters?

I am not critical about gender, people can be whatever gender they like, and I don't care how people present. They can present as clouds if they want.

I am critical about men claiming to be women and accessing their spaces.

I wish you could give multiple reactions to posts sometimes, because that would have been a full house from me!

I'll take @Boiledbeetle 's brand of feminism over yours any day. Yours sounds much less fun and full of scolding and purity spirals. Hers has got yummy foods and interpretive dance.

I think that women can reclaim idioms if we want. I love 'don't get your knickers in a twist' and 'big girl's blouse'. Even 'calm down, dear' is being used ironically nowadays. Language changes, though in this case by comman usage, not by imposition.😘

😁 Your mine now. I apparently own you. Will you be wanting your own room? Or are you happy to share with the cats? Will you be bringing your own snacks or do I need to feed you as well!

Do think only men can be misogynist towards women? I think you’ve missed quite a lot of discourse around internalized misogyny etc there!

One woman saying to another "don't get your knickers in a twist" doesn't count IMO

So internalised misogyny doesn't exist now?!

Cross posted

My interpretive dance of one getting ones knickers in a twist

I believe that makes you part of a cult.

If you consider someone to be being foolish (as I certainly did in the case of this poster), pointing that out is not misogyny, sexism, or whatever other word you’re going to pivot to

it’s just thinking someone is being foolish

Brigading!!

to the stocks with her!

Oh jeso I missed that! Here now! When did I become Boily's property?!

I'm sure she's lovely, but I don't want to be her pet, and I'm sure she doesn't want to be responsible for me either! I could maybe get down with the idea of being fed a steady diet of Tunnocks... I'll have to muse on this a bit more, perhaps a pros and cons list 😆

Am I just Boiledbeetle's? Or am I common property of the whole FWR board? @Stonehenger If I get a say, I'd like to just be my own thanks very much! 😆

Ouch. I just tried that and I can feel them going up me bum crack.

I know! "You're mine now Cohen'sDiamondTeeth" Very Papa Lazarou! 😆

Ooh I love cats! They go on the "Pro being Boily's property" list! 😆

And admitting that would in no way undermine your gender critical beliefs

You think Rowling's behaviour was inappropriate while most posters on this board don't, presumably because they interpret her behaviour differently and are more offended by the behaviour that motivated it.

However, if it were found out tomorrow that Rowling is in the habit of drowning kittens and puppies, humans would still not be able to change sex and women would still depend on sex based rights that men don't need. There is no purity test for being able to observe material reality.

A non sexist response would be something like ‘you’re being foolish’ then, or even ‘you’re an idiot’, or something much ruder!

As a women, I immediately recognise the type of dismissal in the use of ‘don’t get your knickers in a twist’ as gendered. It was sexist (and if @Boiledbeetle is a woman, suggests some kind of internalized misogyny).

I think most of you absolutely know it. You don’t have to ALL agree on everything!

I think most of you absolutely know it.

Ah, you know our minds better than we do now. Nothing misogynistic about that at all.🙄

I think not having a word to describe adult human females is misogyny (internalised or otherwise)