Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

Sure, but whether she took the photo herself or not, the way she used the photo to mock and humiliate is appalling.

But don’t let me derail your thread. Someone asked what bad things people think Rowling has done. I just answered what I think she has done that people (including me) think is bad.And you’re wasting your time trying to persuade me it’s fine to use people’s bodies to embarrass them, because I’m not going to budge on that!

Oh sorry, I thought Rowling’s anti trans thing was meant to be about feminism and keeping women safe. Are you saying that when she did that it had NO RELATIONSHIP to what she considers her feminism / feminist acts? What an extremely weird take, that I doubt most gender critical people would go along with either 😬

Hilarious how long that photo existed on the internet yet we never heard a peep from TRAs until JKR shared it, now it's all pearl clutching and "upskirting".

Yeah right.

Embrassing how transparent they are that they will throw anything at JKR to see if it sticks. I cringe for them. There's not even any consistency to what they claim to think she believes from one thing to the next, it's just "oh try this bad thing!" "try this bad thing!" "Oh now try this bad thing!" "Come on, one of them has to work!" So obvious they have no theory of mind, no understanding of what someone other than them might actually think.

One has to wonder, if TRA-land honesty wasn't aware of the FredPhoto and the accompanying shit show of a debate it comes from where his own side had to get him to shut up, how trapped in their own little echo-chambers must they be?

Do you think all flashers are being “upskirted”?

Is it women’s fault for not looking away?

I don't have the energy to investigate every twitter exchange between Rowling and Wallace, but I think the one that ended in the fishnet stockings picture included Wallace called Rowling a stupid woman and an arsehole.

Was the context that Wallace wanted Rowling to take part in a debate, but through a third party, and Rowling said she would be happy to debate Wallace? the thread is a bit confusing.

Fundamentally it's just two people having an online spat. The problem is that one of them was long expected to be everyone's mum, and she has declined the role.

For what it's worth, I think Rowling should pay less attention to people like India Willoughby and Fred Wallace, but maybe engaging with them directly makes her feel more in control of her life, given that she receives multiple death threats.

You don’t have to agree with me but if you read my posts I am clear why I think the photos existing in public vs the way J K Rowling used them with a clear INTENION to humiliate is different. You don’t have to to agree with me, but denying I’ve addressed it isn’t having an actual discussion.

Desperate stuff.

You might think so. I think gender critical women using the same tools that misogynistic men use against women to keep them in the their place IS worth talking (and worrying!) about.

Unless you can show me your previous posts where you have equally condemned the absolutely vile abuse and threats that many many public TRAs have aimed at JKR, I'm afraid I cannot take that statement as anything other than biased dissembling.

And FWIW, I consider a man who dresses up as an offensive parady of womanhood and actively fights to remove rights from women has given up any expectation of being treated with respect by women.

Women learn eventually that being better than our enemies is just another trap for us.

Lots of TRA were unhappy with Wallace after the event.

They reframed their embarrassment when it became an opportunity to criticise a woman.

I am not pretending I’ve done a ‘both sides’ of the whole debate post. I said I’ve specifically explained my understanding of the photo issue - that it’s about INTENTION to humiliate for me.

I’d have thought it goes without saying I think sending death threats or abuse is also Not Good.

Well yes, because you can strongly disagree with someone AND think people shouldn’t use people’s bodies to humiliate them.

You would think so, yes.

And yet, only one side's transgression you felt was important enough to jump in and start condemning, and it was the woman who has endured years of abuse simply for putting female people over men's womanny feelings you felt deserving of your public condemation rather than the men who abuse her.

So honestly, I think you have a bit of a cheek - no, actually a fucking enormous one - thinking delicate sensibilities around JKR's deliberate INTENTION to humilate the sexist twerp are the biggest issue in this.

As I say above, you don’t have to agree, but I don’t think gender critical women using the same tools misogynistic men use to humiliate, shame and keep women in their place IS trivial. I think it’s worth talking about. I think it’s quite a worrying phenomenon and something I expect many gender critical women stand quite firmly against.

From what I understand JK Rowling sincerely believes that F Wallace has a humiliation fetish, so although I believe she was intending to cause offence, I think the last thing she would want to do is actually humiliate.

How do women highlight mens behaviour if we cannot show how they behave?

I don’t know… I think she’s always used bodies to humiliate. She did it to her characters way before she even got involved in the gender critical stuff. It’s there from the very beginning with the ‘Dudley gets a pigs tail! Because he’s fat! Get it!’ business. I know it’s fiction, but I think it does give us some clues to her world view.

But I think other gender critical women supporting that idea of using bodies to mock and embarrass is the newer bit that I find worrying. They could absolutely uphold all their gender critical beliefs and still say ‘we don’t shame people for what their bodies look like or use what someone was wearing to blame them for harassment’. But they don’t.

There are many ways to do activism, make a case for what you believe, or stand up to an oppressor that don’t involve acting that oppression out on someone else. I don’t think many people who agree with your gender critical views would say they believe you should all be behaving like the worst kind of misogynist men.

Soz, I’ll cancel myself. It’s the decent thing to do.

JKR's favourite MO is plausible deniability that way she doesn't get the blood on her hands….she leaves that to her minions to join the dots. And those dots being trans women are only delusional sexual deviants evidenced by this one being representative of the whole strategy.

A truly deviously manipulative insidious individual that interestingly has exposed herself as such despite all attempts at concealment.

All this from the peoples that claim its absolutely fine for men to express their femininity.

Notice they never go after trans men in this fashion?

M.I.S.O.G.Y.N.Y.

I love the way JKR lives rent free in people's heads

Honestly, I always find myself surprised at TRA's open support of flashers.

She’s had a really outsized impact because of the money she’s invested into her gender critical work. She IS very powerful, so of course people who want to support trans people have to think about her and how she operates, and of course we consider her cultural impact etc. We’re not just weirdly obsessed with her for no reason (unlike her obsession with trans people tbh!).