Triggernometry KJK vs Helen Webbererly

[spannasaurus]

Triggernometry are hosting a debate between Kellie Jay Keene and Helen Webberly tonight. Should be interesting!

https://x.com/triggerpod/status/2085311868235600059?s=20

I dipped into reddit to have a peek - it's still lists of 'I had a wee in the ladies today and all the women at work cheered and carried me on their shoulders"

Any references to KJK v Webberly are not obvious.

Well what a ride that was.

My fave bits were HW looking in to the camera and giving the audience winky eyes and knowing looks, as if the audience were going to agree with her, she is as deluded as trans adults.

Kelly put out a few trip wires that HW tripped over, and then tried to row back on.

HW ended up in the silence transphobes in law argument.

Kelly sat back and smirked in a very shine the light on a twat sort of way, and Konstantino nailed HW to the floor on freedom to discuss.

I may be a sadistic hedgehog but i thought it was rather good sport to watch, much better than boxing or wrestling.

Kelly’s expressions were the best thing about it. When Webberley was banging on about listening to trans people, I just wanted KJK to reference Mary Cate Delvey. Unfortunately she did not. Sad times.

It was much better sport than I was expecting, Hedgehog. HW makes my skin crawl a bit - it must be the combination of being both extremely patronising and utterly deluded. Konstantin did seem to take her to task far more often than he did KJK, mainly to get her to answer his questions. I liked KJK's smirks at the end. What other response could there be to the nonsense HW was spouting?

KJK discussing it live now

HW constant assertion that her opinion on this topic is superior because she is a "fully trained medical doctor" and other people "dont understand medicine" is painfully ridiculous.
She is dangerously unhinged.

HW is like an oil slick, no one can grab hold of her and tie her down to a solid answer, she squirms away and breaks off into a different pathway. Trying to get her to answer a question is impossible , she is simply too good at churning out her stock answers which she uses to disguise the fact that she isn’t actually answering a direct question. But that is now her downfall. I think she has got so used to producing her stock responses that she doesn’t realise how ridiculous they sound, some years ago she might have fooled people who wanted desperately to believe that the snake oil would work with her calm, soothing ,reasonable ‘trust me I am a doctor’ voice but people are now actually listening to the words , and what she says is absolute crap.

The moment when she admitted that the transpeople who she knows who have wonderful fulfilling sex lives with earth shattering orgasms had never actually been given puberty blocking hormones or cross sex hormones at an age when their bodies were still developing, was telling and distressing. She knows she is lighting a blue touch paper that will ignite a devastating time bomb of ill health in someone’s body at some indeterminate point in time AND SHE DOESN’T CARE.

The real truth is that she has no idea what will happen in twenty or thirty years to the children, oops,the young people, she wants to medicalise. My blood ran cold when she implied that she thought it was fine for a child’s parents to make decisions for a child before the child fully understood the implications of taking puberty blockers, and then tried to normalise this by comparing it to the decisions a parent makes about agreeing to an operation for appendicitis, or other life saving procedures. As Kelly says, it is child abuse. No ,you can’t agree to your child getting a tattoo, but yes, you can agree to medically sterilise your child, to reduce its skeletal growth, to damage its bone density, alter its voice, change its hair growth etc etc.

First do no harm. She seems to have forgotten that.

God Almighty, that might be the worst HW debate performance I've seen, and that is saying something!

Tough call, but I think my favourite bit was her telling Konstantin that he and a transman would look 'identical' side by side 😂 both he and KJK said 'IDENTICAL???!!!' and were open mouthed in shock

Don't know whether HW is unhinged or deeply disingenuous. Shes incredibly unpleasant either way

She stammered and was shaking a lot wasnt she. She really is an embarrassment for her side. They dont like her at all do they. And what was all that shit about blockers about how it doesnt delay puberty you just do the opposite one. Thats a new (bullsit) argument for her. KJK look like she was gonna explode at that. I love her.
I was feeling Konstantin was too easy on her - until the end when he came down on her so hard about freedom of speech. KJK face - she was lapping it up whilst HW was digging a deeper hole for herself.

I spat out my wine at that one! I liked the Constantin remark about whether most men if asked to choose would prefer to have facial hair or a penis.

'I liked the Constantin remark about whether most men if asked to choose would prefer to have facial hair or a penis'

I asked my partner for his thoughts, and he agreed with KK that he would keep the penis every time 😁

On a shallow note, KJK looked absolutely fabulous, as usual

Just remembered HW saying 'at your age, your ovaries have probably stopped working!' 😂😲 so many mad moments are coming back to me!

You know you may feel that a penis is more important to you than a beard.

Yes love, men DO LIKE THEIR PENISES!

Fucking hell, HOW was she ever allowed to prescribe any drugs to human beings?

KJK: What is the test for gender identity (in children), what is the test for saying 'yes, let's definitely put that kid on puberty blockers?

HW: As we mentioned earlier, we talked about appendicitis, and 40% of appendics operations..bla bla bla

KJK: I would like you to tell me, what is the test, I don't want a comparison (with appendicitis), I want you to tell us what is the test where you would say 'yes, that child should go on puberty blockers'

HW: So, when you talk about appendectomy, 40% of appendics..

KJK: Are they having append...I just want to be direct

Eventually, we learn from HW that there is no test, it's purely the feelings and words of a child

KJK: People will be really aghast. So you would disrupt the really important things which happen through puberty, never having a sexual feeling, fertility, sexual function, never having an orgasm.

HW: They won't be aghast..

Oh yes they will.

Just watched it all the way through. I'd never heard Webberley before.

Hate to say it, but I thought Webberley came across as more thoughtful, while Kellie and Konstantin both came across as rude and aggressive. If I'd been a neutral observer, I would have been swayed by Webberley's calmness.

I'm utterly gender critical, and the debate hasn't convinced me out of that. There were things Webberley said that I found horrific.

But these days people pick up on vibes as much as content. I do think the rudeness and aggression Kellie and Kostantin showed is counter-productive, and will put lots of undecideds off a gender critical position.

Bullshit with knobs on, we are beyond being polite when it comes to the mutilation of children, oh and free speach.

Ha ha ha. So you are gender critical and you have never heard of Webberley before. I am struggling to believe that . . .

I think pp said she hadn’t heard Webberley before, ie heard her speak. Not that she hasn’t heard of her.

I said I'd never heard Webberley speak before. Of course I'd heard of her, but never bothered to listen to her.

'I had a wee in the ladies today and all the women at work cheered and carried me on their shoulders"

This made me laugh out loud, TisEye😂

I don’t think Webberley came across as particularly thoughtful though. As I said, Kellie’s concern for the children comes through when she talks about the harm done. Not sure you can say the same about Webberley. It’s a combination of glib and superior.

I've just started watching and six minutes in I'm already irritated by Helen, in relation to a sex vs gender query, talking about the nine Equality Act characteristics and that one involves 'reassigning your sex'.

That the characteristic in question is 'gender reassignment' is very basic knowledge. The intellectual dishonesty is so frustrating.

I'll keep watching although I suspect my blood pressure will not thank me.

you have to do harm if you are giving HRT and surgeries to trans people, "the harm is the point" as I've heard someone else say before. you are harming healthy bodies with drugs that they need for a mental issue. you aren't trying to weigh the risks and benefits of these drugs to help a health problem in the body. the harm is the point and they gotta bring up suicide because that's how you justify harming healthy bodies.

She says something like “gender incongruence is a protected characteristic” as well, which isn’t true.

Helen was noticeably shaking and sweating and it’s not surprising as Kellie is formidable and knows her stuff.

no decently thoughtful person would debate this from that side, cause it so obviously falls apart at every point. it's built on contradictions and falsehoods, and goes blatently against reality with it's "transwoman are woman" "transmen are men". you gotta have a certain level of narcissism and delusion to think you could actually debate it, instead of just saying "no debate".