Commonwealth Games website (re Caster Semanya)

[impossibletoday]

Noticed on the commonwealth games website. All the athletics events I looked at showed both the world record and the games record......

except the women's 800m.

Guess who holds that record from 2016.

If you're taking about Semanya it wasn't his testosterone levels that made him a man. It's his maleness that makes him a man

His testosterone levels are within the male range because he is male.

Oh dear. No. They don't have a functioning SRY which activates testosterone in the same way as they are female. They have not been through male puberty. They are women.

Testosterone levels are not that important. A man is an adult human male. Males have a body that is organised around the production of small gametes. Transmen have bodies organised around the production of large gametes so are not male and not men. This doesn't change no matter how much exogenous testosterone they take.

@Millie767

Someone didn't read (or possibly understand) the whole thread now, did they?

Dear dimwit, no.

Nope. What makes CS male is that the T was produced by his testes.

Mate.

That is just another false representation.

It is the naturally produced testosterone levels in the testes, ie in a body that has been formed around the production of small gametes, that is then processed by the body to virulise that body.

In your hurry to demonise and derogate women who disagree with you, you have got it woefully wrong. You seem very ill informed.

LOL. It’s not the testosterone level that makes men men. It’s being men.

And you don’t seem to understand what bioessentialism is either @Millie767 .

So… perhaps you shouldn’t try to use gotchas that you found ever so convincing without actually understanding what the fuck you are actually saying.

Just more recycled misinformation. And the cycle just goes around again.

bioessentialist!
hateful!
vile!
hysterical!
marginalised!

anyone got any more?

Funded by the Far Right?!

“Anti rights”

Just waiting to be told how disappointing we are.

Its pretty obvious that outside of wanting to compete in the female category, semenya does not live or present as a woman at all, and doesnt consider himself one, even when growing up he wasnt treated as a girl at all. They (scouts, coaches etc) knew full well what they were doing - cheating.

Tbf, "bioessentialist" is the literal term for your views on sex and gender. Why are you unhappy about me using that?

I don't think that's true. "Bioessentialist", by my understanding, is a belief that human behaviour, eg conforming to gender roles, is biologically determined. That's not at all what most people here would argue.

What is your interpretation?

Don't forget: "racist against black women because they don't meet western beauty standards!"

My least favourite part of discussing Semenya with a TRA is that you'll initially think that, since they added 'intersex' to the pride flag, and that the existence of 'intersex' people is presumably one of their most cherished beliefs, that it'll be possible to have a sensible discussion with them about whether a so-called intersex person would be better suited to a male or female sporting category where only two exist, but, no, it turns out that the fact that Semenya wants to be called a woman is all that matters, CS therefore is a woman, and not intersex at all.

The natural next question might be, 'oh, so what would make someone intersex', an answer will almost never be forthcoming but on the rare occasions that it is the answer will usually be words to the effect of: 'it's a person who identifies as intersex'.

What planet are you on? He can consider himself whatever he wants (or more like, whatever will enable him to cheat at sport) but that doesn’t make it true.

I'm quite surprised to see this discussion now, I thought we all knew we'd been scammed by now. I remember 'the poor innocent Caster, how shocking and traumatic to find out that you aren't a female' days, but then it came out that he's known from at least the teen years and was just a typical cheating male.

Oh dear.

No we don't believe that people's identity and personality are determined by their biological sex.

We believe that it should absolutely not be determined by your sex. Quite the opposite you see.

You can have any personality you want, irrespective of your sex.

You could be masculine and be male or female. You can be feminine, and be male or female. Any person can have any combination of identity, and personality, whatever their sex.

Hence 'gender critical'. Critical of gender being imposed on people because of their biology.

What we do believe is that biology determines your sex. That's it. Nothing else.

Just who has the babies and who provides the sperm.

And to be honest, if you believe someone other than females grow the babies, and someone other than males provide the sperm you really need to go back to school.

Caster was believed to be female at birth, was brought up as female and always thought of herself as female. She didn’t know she also had some male features until after she had gained that record. She was exposed in a very humiliating way. This thread is nasty, toxic and bullying.

And I’m gender critical.

My DD plays football and played on her school’s boys’ team. Does that mean she’s a boy too? 🙄

I assumed from that remark that Millie doesn't know what bioessentialism means.