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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Trans Women are Real Women and Should Have Access to Women's Spaces

1000 replies

user08101988 · Yesterday 12:32

Started because a thread on Girlguiding was getting too off topic.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:44

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 17:41

No they don't

Words have meanings

Yes words have meanings. Cis woman refers to a woman who was registered female at birth.

ThatCyanCat · Yesterday 17:44

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:41

V odd.

You're here trying to tell us women have knobs, this isn't going to work coming from you.

Ironicallyamused · Yesterday 17:45

Thirty four pages of the usual guff including a study of 24 transpeople which indicated a trend rather than an absolute. 24. Excuse me if I'm not persuaded that a man that thinks he's a woman is one.

Given that there are so many threads on the subject already OP presumably you're either bored, like beating your head off a brick wall, or are you determined to be a trans-missionary. Waving your studies like they're gospel and trying to indoctrinate the natives. Just as well that burning the non believers at the stake is frowned upon these days.

banmusk · Yesterday 17:45

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:44

Yes words have meanings. Cis woman refers to a woman who was registered female at birth.

Cis is not a word.

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 17:45

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:44

Yes words have meanings. Cis woman refers to a woman who was registered female at birth.

What about women who were registered female at birth but are trans? i.e. transmen? Are they cis? 🤔

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 17:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ThreadGuardDog · Yesterday 17:45

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:38

Cis and white in the context of white woman or cis woman behave the exact same way grammatically

They absolutely do not. You need to learn the difference between a demographic and a subset. Women are not a subset, they are a demographic.

BackToLurk · Yesterday 17:46

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:44

Yes words have meanings. Cis woman refers to a woman who was registered female at birth.

Registered female on account of being female.

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:46

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 17:45

What about women who were registered female at birth but are trans? i.e. transmen? Are they cis? 🤔

No because trans men are not women.

Survivor2020 · Yesterday 17:46

def not

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:46

ThreadGuardDog · Yesterday 17:45

They absolutely do not. You need to learn the difference between a demographic and a subset. Women are not a subset, they are a demographic.

I have no idea what this means

SodThisHeadache · Yesterday 17:46

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:43

So an eye roll is absolutely unacceptable but calling someone a "fucking moron" is ok? Btw I'm pretty sure that's well accepted as being a ableist slur rooted in contempt for learning disabled people. You might want to reconsider.

But I didn't do it. I just thought about it. Do you see?
People think all sorts of stuff don't they?
If you think I give a shit about being called 'ableist' then...

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 17:47

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:46

No because trans men are not women.

But they were registered female at birth though.
Because otherwise they could not be transmen.
Unless men can be transmen? 🤔

What a tangled web you are weaving for yourself.

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 17:47

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:46

I have no idea what this means

Clearly!

BackToLurk · Yesterday 17:47

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:46

I have no idea what this means

Well that’s blindingly obvious.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 17:48

Whatwerewetalkingabout · Yesterday 15:15

Hi OP. Yes and yes, I started on mumsnet on the TTC threads during my 2 week waits however as a feminist I have soon learned to avoid the "feminism" forum as its mostly dedicated to transphobia. I also suspect the "feminism" forum is chock full of transphobic misogynistic men like "Glinner" who have a lot of fear to spread to stay relevant, and are even welcomed, which is a bit ironic if we're talking about safe female only spaces. 😬

There are still areas of this forum that give out good parenting/relationship advice etc that are mostly frequented by women, many who don't really GAF about the anti trans shit. But for your own sanity I wouldn't look for support or open mindedness in this section of the platform in the same way I wouldn't try asking about feminism in a 4chan manosphere/red pill forum. Xx Take care. Xx

Disagreement with gender-identity claims is not inherently ‘transphobia’. This discussion concerns whether males may enter female-only services and whether woman continues to mean adult human female. Women defending privacy, dignity and safety are expressing legitimate sex-based interests; dismissing them as hateful or comparing them with a manosphere forum avoids those arguments.

JulietteHasAGun · Yesterday 17:48

user08101988 · Yesterday 12:45

They are called women, much like women who were assigned female at birth are cisgender women. Trans is just an adjective

But we’re not called cis gender women are we. Thats just a little made up term. We’re just called women by normal people. And actually on MN calling someone cis can get you deleted. And nobody gets “assigned” sex at birth. What ridiculous language. I’m a midwife, I’ve never assigned a baby their sex….makes it sound like I’m tossing a coin! Hilarious.

ThreadGuardDog · Yesterday 17:48

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:44

Yes words have meanings. Cis woman refers to a woman who was registered female at birth.

No it doesn’t. ‘Woman’ refers to a woman who was registered female at birth. No other prefix is necessary. Men cannot be women, sex is immutable.

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 17:48

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:30

It's not an insult any more than "white" or "straight" is an insult .

Humans have 2 sub sets - male and female. Each of these sets have 2 subsets. Male = boy / man. Female = girl / woman. These sets are not interchangeable. Men who identify as women are in fact male.
Man and woman also have subsets that further categorise them, but they are first and foremost male or female, that is fixed at conception.

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:48

SodThisHeadache · Yesterday 17:46

But I didn't do it. I just thought about it. Do you see?
People think all sorts of stuff don't they?
If you think I give a shit about being called 'ableist' then...

Edited

I mean you didn't just think it , you typed it out and posted it!

Retrolady13 · Yesterday 17:49

I'm wondering why we rarely hear of male identifying women thinking they should use male toilets ...

Ereshkigalangcleg · Yesterday 17:49

Sunnibee · Yesterday 17:46

No because trans men are not women.

They are though. See the Equality Act 2010.

GrumpyPanda · Yesterday 17:49

Oovavuuuu · Yesterday 13:20

Mumsnet is just an echo chamber for the anti trans movement. It's not how most people feel in real life. I wouldn't even bother debating here as people aren't interested in different view points.

And yet unlike Reddit, this site won't block you for your "pink brain" bigotry. Maybe have a think about that.

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 17:50

I skimmed the full thread after my first post and note there’s something later on about eye rolls so apologies.

As for incomers who want unisex toilets…

There seems to be lots of people thinking they are experts on toilet access this week. There’s a woman from Northern Ireland who seems to be wanting there not to be single sex toilets. She was quoted as saying this in today’s papers:

“None of them [women] were murdered in a public toilet either…”

I have very little on people being murdered in public toilets in my database. It is incredibly rare. It’s also a pretty low bar to set for toilet safety but I believe this was in response to women who have been murdered. This is not the gotcha about the safety of public toilets she thinks it is.

Many people do die in public toilets.

In a single sex environment the design can be different: toilet door gaps are permitted for health and safety reasons.

These gaps can save lives as someone who has collapsed is more likely to be seen. The gaps are also advantageous for preventing misuse (including assaults), for cleaning and ventilation.

Mixed sex toilets (unisex, ‘gender-neutral’, universal) do not have these door gaps for privacy reasons. You would not be able to see or hear them. The design is private and for universal: resistant to sound. It’s the default design choice that is best for privacy and worse for health and safety.

JulietteHasAGun · Yesterday 17:50

@user08101988 out of interest do you think Ian Huntley is a woman because he says he is? Or do you think he may be pretending to get an easier life inside?

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