Trans Women are Real Women and Should Have Access to Women's Spaces

[user08101988]

Started because a thread on Girlguiding was getting too off topic.

Not at all. But you were mocking someone's abuse. Which is entirely different from disagreeing.

Why is it not discrimination against me as a disabled person to have to use the disabled loo? I have to out myself every time I go to the loo. All loos should be designated disabled. Otherwise it’s discrimination and forcing me to out myself.

Why was my post saying we have to agree to disagree deleted?

Not against the rules. Your decision however to use it as a response to Taz was the bit that left people going what the fuck?

It was uncalled for, and showed a side of your character that was unpleasant at best and came across as despicably cruel.

This is when I miss the laugh emoji. Good response.

I've said elsewhere that the case that brought this home to me was the trial of Katie/Lennon Dolatowski. He used his supposed female identity to access women's spaces including supermarket toilets in two separate Fife towns.

His first victim was a a 12 yr old victim of voyeurism. The second victim was a 10 yr old who had to punch Katie/Lennon in the groin in order fend off a sexual assault.

Those of us from the area are well aware that Katie/Lennon is a particularly large, violent man and yet the powers that be continually bowed to his wish to enter women's spaces, even to the extent of allowing this paedophile to be discharged to a women's shelter which housed mothers and their children.

He was only removed when some of the mothers at the refuge contacted the local newspaper.

The authorities valued a man's feelings more than the safety of women and children.

I wasn't doing that no.

I was responding to the fact that imv the claim that "women need protection " has no place in a debate about whether trans women are women.

Writing the word “yawn” also ISTR

So, the normal human response after doing something really egregious like mocking a woman for talking about her abuse, would be to apologise. Rather than doubling down and having a petted lip about being deleted.

Are there not courses people can take in empathy and social interaction? An app or something that tells you what is appropriate and not?

The Supreme Court para 209 confirms the legal definition of woman. You may wish to extrapolate from that.

You do know that the suggestion that trans identified men use gender neutral (mixed sex) loos has been rejected out of hand by them for years, don’t you?

Did you miss the second part of the OP by any chance? I mean, they’re not women, they are men, this has been clarified by the Supreme Court, not that we needed that.

So men, including this particular group, are not in fact welcome in women’s spaces, and one of the key reasons for this is because men pose a risk to women and another is that it is a violation of our privacy and dignity for men to invade female only spaces.

What exactly are we missing? Why can you not understand the relevance of women’s lived experience to this?

You may be comfortable with one but not the other. Maybe I would be ok too…
That has absolutely no bearing on the rights of other women - rape survivors etc - who would not be remotely comfortable with any male being in single sex spaces.

I am actually interested in this but I think you should start a new thread so it doesn't get caught up in this one

Just to add: by the time you come back, this one might have reached its limit anyway!

I really don’t think it’s worth your time @murasaki, it’s just crappy rage bait with nothing to back it up. You’ve lost @Sunnibee, you need to find a way to deal with that.

💐 @Taztoy

Unless you’re born as a woman you are not a woman. Sorry

No it doesn't conform the "legal definition of woman". It confirms the legal definition of the word "woman" as it appears in one specific piece of legislation - the EA 2010,

There's a resaon why women are out of patience, the kind of practical solutions you are suggesting were suggested years ago, women even offered to help get them built.
But that wasn't good enough, there is a cohort of men who want to get in the womens spaces because that is where the women are.

I listened to the latest This Isn't Working podcast in which a delight by the name of Bobbi Picard of Trans in the City announced that he would continue to use womens toilets and if anyone tried to stop him he was going to urinate on the floor. Said no woman ever.

A few years back I read on X a trans identified male who had found funding for a third/fourth space toilet and was looking for match funding. Did the trans community leap at it? Did they fuck, not a single donation was made.

Women are done with it, it's not our job to offer and help and the goodwill has been literally pissed away. Now the concentration is on hanging onto the spaces that we had to fight for, from about 1860 I believe(?) The men can sort their own shit out, we aren't their mothers and are not obliged to solve their problems.

Yep. We've had enough of being threatened, attacked, and pissed upon. Men need to put their own house in order.

Still no apology.

And the EA 2010 also prohibits sex based discrimination and permits single sex spaces.

why don’t they matter?

So, if your brain was scanned and you turned out NOT to have "female brain", you'd accept you were a man?

Second, please explain to me why the physical structure of the brain should count when determining biological sex but the physical structure of the genitalia or the whole body DNA should not. Seems like you're cherry picking, so explain to me why you're not.

Nope, set up trans spaces.

Yawn 🙄

Full disclosure I am still on page eight. Things may have progressed. They often do :) but these are fucking good biscuits:

Treacle Ginger Biscuits

2 cups flour
1/4 tsp salt
2 tsp baking soda
1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp ground cloves
1 tsp (or more) freshly grated ginger
3/4 cup butter
1 cup sugar
1 egg
1/4 cup black treacle

Combine flour, salt, baking soda, cloves and ginger and set aside. Cream butter and sugar together and then add treacle and beat until light and fluffy. Stir in flour mixture just until blended.Shape into small balls and roll in sugar. Place on an ungreased baking sheet and bake in a hot oven for 8 to 10 minutes. Use a metal spatula to lift from the baking sheet to a clean counter top to cool.

Oh, and men can't be women.