TIFs in single-sex spaces

[MiddleCyclone]

Long-time Mumsnet browser (I remember watching penis beaker go semi-viral while I was already on here and god knows how long ago that was), left for a few years after all the trans stuff got too much for me, back to ask a question.

I’m a trans man who’s been on hormones long enough to pass nearly all of the time, who finally stopped using the women’s loos a couple of years back when a young girl watched me drying my hands and yelped “Mummy there’s a boy in here!”.

If the new guidance on single-sex spaces is to be followed I, read mostly as male (well, as a man), should go back in there and keep having these interactions, and keep making women and girls uncomfortable with my presence. Surely this can’t be the ideal outcome? It feels like the legislation has completely overlooked this.

Because most businesses can not afford to build a fourth type of toilet facility, there are two sexes and two core toilet types that match - then generic for the disabled who have other physical needs….

use the one designed for your real sex

Well it’s clear you posted in a gotcha bad faith as you haven’t engaged or returned.

But fgs. If you pass as male, then use the men’s toilets. Women won’t care and men won’t either. TiF are never the issue. It is the men forcing their way into women’s spaces that is the issue. It is women feeling threatened or scared by men that’s the issue. Men are not threatened by short TiF. IMO.

I'm very uncomfortable with encouraging TiFs to use the mens 'if they pass'.

If that's the normal acceptable response then obviously it's going to be extended to men who rest in the belief that they pass, or just plain don't care, and the message is 'ignore your sex and crack on as you choose'.

No. No one should be invading facilities provided as single sex for the opposite sex, its not appropriate or ok, those facilities are not for you and are needed by the people they are intended for. The endless but what if...what if... what if..... is bloody tedious; do what women who can't use mixed sex spaces have had to do for years while this mad experiment was carried out. No one cared about them, they were just expected to make do and shut up.

I am sorry - men do care - we do not want women in our single-sex spaces any more than women want men in their spaces.

As a man going into a male loo - to find a woman in there would concern me hugely - it gives an opportunity for inaccurate allegations to be made against me. If a child is going in then it might be raising questions that are not age appropriate for them - that is a parental decision, not to be forced on them by someone else.

It doesn't matter what the excuse might be
It doesn't matter what some people 'feel is okay'

2 sexes
2 types of spaces / loos

use the one that matches your sex - it is not complicated as that sex is observed and recorded when born and remains the same for the rest of your life. Every person knows whether they are a man or woman.

So there is no excuse - they should only ever be in their spaces and no dressing up / surgery / beliefs that they are opposite sex will ever be more than dressing up / surgery or inaccurate beliefs - they still need to use the space for their birth sex.

Wee "guys" with underwhelming facial hair who scurry past the urinals to use a cubicle are not that uncommon, and are just left alone by and large. I've been that laddie myself (now 6 foot dad bod with a full set of grey stubble).