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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What TRAs or 'gender' advocates and 'gender critical' feminists agree on.

448 replies

WrongKindOfFeminist · 18/07/2026 11:21

Thought it might be useful to find points of commonality.

Ever the optimist! 😊

  1. Gender stereotypes can be restrictive and limiting.
OP posts:
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11
FrippEnos · 21/07/2026 18:13

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/07/2026 15:33

Yes, but there were a lot of people in authority who could have nipped it in the bud early on, and a lot more who thought it was “progressive” and clapped it like seals.

I still think that this is more down to how the "T" tagged itself on to to LGB organisations and expanded out that way.

There have been other attempts to progress the "T" and other acronyms and they have been (quite rightly) slapped down when they have been put forward by themselves.

Helleofabore · 21/07/2026 18:18

GiddyGiddyGiddy · 21/07/2026 12:27

For example this: I don't think tarring all transpeople with the same brush as the worst of them does anyone any favours, and only toxifies the debate further.

When discussing safeguarding principles and the safeguarding policy application, groups of male people must be treated as 'the worst of them'. That is because full exclusion is the only answer. There can be no special groups of male people (over the age of about 8 years old.).

BridgetYourFortyDaysAreUp · 21/07/2026 18:19

GiddyGiddyGiddy · 21/07/2026 15:18

It's like having an argument with someone when you realise you've lost; it's not as simple as turning around and immediately admitting you were wrong.

Transpeople know they've lost, and that the tide is finally turning against them, but just being blunt and expecting things to change overnight is going to provoke a backlash. It shouldn't, but it will.

@Seethlaw well said:

Women never get anything by being kind. So not being kind is a requirement when fighting for women's rights.

@GiddyGiddyGiddy
but just being blunt and expecting things to change overnight is going to provoke a backlash.

I am blunt, here and in real life (and as long as doing so won't cost me my job, I don't care what others think of me). Blunt works. A lot. It cuts through emotional BS and superfluous waffle, and gets to the heart of the matter. And blunt can be kind and it can be polite, but it doesn't need to be, and I don't care if it isn't.

I am not expecting things to change overnight (this is reality, not a game with programmable characters), but the EA 2010 was clarified overnight, and I expect people to obey the law. If being blunt helps make that clear to people, then so be it.

Helleofabore · 21/07/2026 18:52

The point women are making is not denying that some male people might be at risk of violence and abuse. Male people with and without transgender identities.

The point really is ‘so what does that mean to the discussion about female single sex provisions of any kind’? Why do you and other people mention this violence and abuse in the first place?

Why is a male experiencing violence and abuse being mentioned on a feminist board discussing the needs of female people? What does acknowledgement of that issue mean to feminist discussion @GiddyGiddyGiddy .

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/07/2026 19:02

So many powerful points. Ironically many being addressed to the poster who has only visited FWR previously to start 2 different threads whining about Glinner. Yet has the nerve to tone police and lecture women on here about being kind. 😆😆

Pingponghavoc · 21/07/2026 19:28

I wonder what the threatened backlash will be. Continuing to use women's spaces?

FrippEnos · 21/07/2026 20:13

Pingponghavoc · 21/07/2026 19:28

I wonder what the threatened backlash will be. Continuing to use women's spaces?

I find it interesting that do many TRAs and trans say that the new guidelines won't work/are unworkable but if that is the case its only because they won't abide by them.

EmpressaurusKitty · 21/07/2026 20:17

You’d think it would be transphobic to assume that most transpeople wouldn’t obey the law. But they openly admit to it themselves.

Trans Reddit is full of it.

Helleofabore · 21/07/2026 20:19

I also think it is vital to keep making the distinction between female people with transgender identities, who are part of the feminist discussion, and male people with transgender identities who are not female.

Why do people feel it is acceptable to expect feminists and campaigners for women and girls to distract from their efforts and divert energy to support male people? Female people with transgender identities, absolutely. Male people?

I think it has been suggested, but I do consider it unreasonable and maybe sexist to divert feminist energy to male people.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/07/2026 22:13

It’s like expecting the Dogs Trust to take in cats and saying “why do you hate cats, what are they supposed to do” when they explain that they are a charity for dogs.

sashh · Yesterday 04:43

WrongKindOfFeminist · 18/07/2026 11:22

3...Violence and harm is wrong.

I think this is what GCs believe, it certainly isn't what TRAs believe. You can see film of women (multiple) assaulted by TRAs.

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 07:52

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/07/2026 22:13

It’s like expecting the Dogs Trust to take in cats and saying “why do you hate cats, what are they supposed to do” when they explain that they are a charity for dogs.

Who or what would be the dog trust in your analogy?

Seethlaw · Yesterday 07:55

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 07:52

Who or what would be the dog trust in your analogy?

Pretty sure it's supposed to be GC feminists?

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:01

Seethlaw · Yesterday 07:55

Pretty sure it's supposed to be GC feminists?

I dont see how that is aligned with the thread. The thread asks what GCAs and TRAs agree on. Why arent the answers focused on answering the thread instead of regurgitating their opinions on trans people like you all over again?

Seethlaw · Yesterday 08:04

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:01

I dont see how that is aligned with the thread. The thread asks what GCAs and TRAs agree on. Why arent the answers focused on answering the thread instead of regurgitating their opinions on trans people like you all over again?

I think the post you quoted was about some of the other posts on this thread asking why women here don't care for the specific problems of trans people.

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:10

Seethlaw · Yesterday 08:04

I think the post you quoted was about some of the other posts on this thread asking why women here don't care for the specific problems of trans people.

The whole thread has been derailed by people who have felt the need to again share their own personal views about trans people like you instead of answering the topic.

Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 08:13

It's a discussion thread. People will respond to comments. It was never going to be just a list of agreements.

Velvian · Yesterday 08:14

ginasevern · 18/07/2026 11:56

"Gender is about social pressure and stereotypes applied on people because of their sex."

Aren't we in danger though of supporting the idea that you can be any "gender" you like if we totally deny all and any stereotypes. So for example, I believe that women have a far lower natural propensity to violence and cruelty than men. I also believe that they're far less likely to abandon their children than men. And I also think that very few 50 year old women would want to get into the pants of the 17 year old male office junior. Are these stereotypes?

I think a lot of what you suggest is cultural (gender rather than sex), but we have no way of accurately separating cultural from biological, which has always been an issue in trying to define sex vs gender.

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:18

Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 08:13

It's a discussion thread. People will respond to comments. It was never going to be just a list of agreements.

Never said it had to be a list of agreements. It could be on topic though.

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 08:18

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:10

The whole thread has been derailed by people who have felt the need to again share their own personal views about trans people like you instead of answering the topic.

It's mostly not about trans identifying women, though, it's about trans identifying men. Or, for clarity, men.

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:18

Velvian · Yesterday 08:14

I think a lot of what you suggest is cultural (gender rather than sex), but we have no way of accurately separating cultural from biological, which has always been an issue in trying to define sex vs gender.

Though I do agree with this.

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:20

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 08:18

It's mostly not about trans identifying women, though, it's about trans identifying men. Or, for clarity, men.

But the thread said:

What TRAs or 'gender' advocates and 'gender critical' feminists agree on.168 replies

WrongKindOfFeminist · 18/07/2026 11:21
Thought it might be useful to find points of commonality.

Ever the optimist! 😊

Gender stereotypes can be restrictive and limiting.

There is nothing about trans women here. It's asking for points that both sides agree on.

nicepotoftea · Yesterday 08:24

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:10

The whole thread has been derailed by people who have felt the need to again share their own personal views about trans people like you instead of answering the topic.

On the contrary, I think the topic has been discussed at length.

People with different views on gender will have many shared opinions on many things because they aren’t defined by their views on gender.

However, it is very difficult to find points of agreement at a policy and practical level if the discussion and acknowledgment of sex is regarded as taboo by organisations representing trans people.

Helleofabore · Yesterday 08:27

This has been something that has been playing on my mind about the insistence that feminists are extreme and that ‘bluntness’ is somehow bad.

Firstly, ‘kind’ language that is accurate and can be confusing has led to constant twisting and pivoting where male people use whataboutery to find a point where they can restart their push to get access or retain access to female single sex provisions. We have seen posters this week post ‘Whatabout surgery? Whatabout when a male athlete has been incorrectly identified as a female infant? Whatabout if Khelif doesn’t win’?

Blunt and accurate language should stop these wheedling attempts to find the exception. Because… in safeguarding principles for these types of scenarios, blanket exclusion (ie where all male people are treated equally) are imperative.

The other aspect is again, this false ‘both sides’ rhetoric as if feminists are using comparative violent and abusive language as those male people calling for the death of women or celebrating the fact that apparently all the women who have pointed out the issues will die soon and miraculously the next generation will be fully accepting. None of this is true. Yet we see it over and over again.

Interestingly though, the same people declaring that others are twisting their words, have a posting history where they have done the same thing.

I remember how many posters used the same fuckwittery to denounce JK Rowling. It seems that it never crosses their mind that they are the ones supporting abusive people. JK Rowling has almost always (I cannot find one example of her not) used blunt terms when discussing either her abusers or those abusers who are harming women and girls.

I think any person accusing her of abusing people has a warped moral compass. Why the fuck should women be nice to their abusers ? Why should JK Rowling be nice to Willoughby when he abuses her? Too often people post her ‘abuse’ and have never once looked further to understand that poster has being abusing her and she isn’t abusive she is simply either pointing to their abuse or using blunt language to point out the flaws in their thinking.

But… both sides.

Either way, there is no comparison that women being blunt and unyieldingly using accurate language is being shamed. Look that the emotional cut through of the Upton testimonies when accurate language was used.

It is hard to whatabout when Naomi Cunningham states clearly ‘he has a male person in a female communal changing room’. That is the ‘blunt’ language female people are using and being implored to stop. Versus the language from many male activists collated on the terfisaslur site.

The assymetry of ‘both sides’ is apparent again in the demonising descriptors used for any feminist or women’s rights campaigners who disagree that male people can ever be female. Eg ‘anti trans’, ‘far right’, and now ‘anti rights’.

Then there is the conflation of when posters are making relevant generalisations based on safeguarding principles and posters making unevidenced negative generalisations. Too often too are posters called out for naming behaviour as ‘predatory’ because someone has twisted the post to mean ‘all male people with trans identities are predators’.

How often does a poster who disagrees with female people having single sex provisions complain using the term ‘bad faith’ when they are hypocritically posting in bad faith themselves .

There are so many aspects where the ‘both sides’ rhetoric is false. From the size of the groups, to the behaviour, to the accusations of language etc. Yet some people, even politicians, still use this falsity. And they then wonder why women reject it as a premise.

GreyskySexRealistsky · Yesterday 08:28

Lexibletheflexible · Yesterday 08:20

But the thread said:

What TRAs or 'gender' advocates and 'gender critical' feminists agree on.168 replies

WrongKindOfFeminist · 18/07/2026 11:21
Thought it might be useful to find points of commonality.

Ever the optimist! 😊

Gender stereotypes can be restrictive and limiting.

There is nothing about trans women here. It's asking for points that both sides agree on.

I know what the thread said.
But you said: "The whole thread has been derailed by people who have felt the need to again share their own personal views about trans people like you instead of answering the topic."

I'm pointing out that the "derail" (as you call it) is not about people's views on trans identifying women like Seethlaw, but on trans identifying men. Male people.

Just to be clear.

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