What TRAs or 'gender' advocates and 'gender critical' feminists agree on.

[WrongKindOfFeminist]

Thought it might be useful to find points of commonality.

Ever the optimist! 😊

1. Gender stereotypes can be restrictive and limiting.

Im not digging or deflecting anything at all. I stand by everything I've said. Even though other women disagreeing or challenging you seems to upset so many of you so much.

Okay I need to focus for a bit to finish this utility room. I shall be back after bedtime

We understand that this reference framework is relevant to you because you believe you have a gender identity. In a pluralistic society people should be free to have a wide range of beliefs, so that is your own business.

However, can you understand that for other people the idea of being categorised according to gender identity is oppressive?

Asking you for data to back up your repeated doubling down is not us being upset. It is us pointing out the hypocrisy in your doubling down while then declaring that you have data that contradicts our data, while using Chat GPT.

In fact, ask a AI generator if Khelif is a cis woman. I just did and it confirmed that yes, Khelif is a cis woman.

ok, no problem, but you still haven't linked to the data that proves your previous assertions. We can't really disagree or challenge your assertions until we see the actual evidence, so we'll just wait.

I certainly wouldn't disagree or agree until I see your data, but I have seen the data which backs up what other posters have said, so it's over to you!

'JL Partners polled a nationally representative sample of 1,500 UK adults online between 28th February and 1st March 2026.'

I then posted figures for all respondents, followed by women in brackets.

The details are all in the link.

Here it is again:

https://sex-matters.org/posts/single-sex-services/new-poll-shows-most-people-prefer-single-sex-toilets-and-changing-rooms/

You don't have to ID as cis but if you deny being cis then I'd assume you mean you aren't the gender you were stated to be at birth.

I would guess that the vast majority of posters on this board do not identify with the 'gender they were stated to be at birth' and feel that it is very much NOT apt for them. That is where the whole concept of being 'gender critical' comes from.

On the other hand their sex cannot be changed, regardless of identity.

Why do I bother?
Why do I bother?
Why do I bother?
Why do I bother?
Why do I bother?
Why do I bother?

Life would be so much nicer on a beach somewhere all deserted right now..,

And here we are:

https://www.gendergp.com/blog/imane-khelif-and-the-issue-with-gender-eligibility-testing-in-sports/

If GenderGP are not experts in assessing who is and is not 'cis gender' then maybe people should take it up with them.

There was also a person who claimed to have a doctorate in the field who posted on MN that Khelif was most definitely a cis woman.

I can continue to find examples, but the reality is, there is confusion out there, and I would suspect that any research data collection mechanic that used the term 'cis' would be either causing confusion or influencing the outcome of the data being collected, or both. It would most certainly weaken the data gained from the collection tool. Just like the census caused a great deal of confusion.

How can anyone believe men are women without knowing how they became women in the first place?

It is telling though that you and all these mystery women that believe this nonsense can never explain it, only deflect. So thank you.

Making ad hom attacks and calling other posters 'unhinged' suggests you are quite aware you are losing the argument.

I deny being 'cis' because it is an ideological term that includes male people with DSDs.

The insistence that people are 'cis' if they are not transgender is actually misleading. Because for the term to be meaningful, people would have to actively 'identify' as the same genderr as their birth sex. I don't identify as any gender but I am also not 'agender'. That categorisation is purely ideological in basis and it also assumes every person who does not identify as being transgender as being part of that belief system.

And it is a belief system because there is no biological foundations to the belief. It is purely subjective.

I spent my career doing things like construction that were 'not of my gender'.

To have some bullshit esposing dipshit telling me I'm CIS because I IDENTIFY as a woman with all the frills and pretty bows and do all the girlie things I was supposed to do is so far from reality that they are going to need a leetle bit more than that to convince me that rapists should be in the toilets with teenage girls.

if you deny being cis then I'd assume you mean you aren't the gender you were stated to be at birth.

I deny being 'cis'. I also deny being a Kafir. That doesn't make me Muslim. It means I don't acknowlege as valid the framework that means you are either Muslim or reject God.

Don't forget Helle we're supposed to be kind women not sweary women. We are womaning wrong. Again.

Yeah? nah... fuck that.

There have been a slew of posts over the past days shaming women if they are not sufficiently kind and thoughtful towards a group of male people.

The logic never seems to stand up to scrutiny though.

Plus ca change eh BB

I never thought I'd be grateful for my upbringing, but I have to say my mother did a bang on job of making sure her kids did not adhere to the be kind framework for women, especially when it came to how to deal with men.

I'll be polite to anyone I meet in public, until they give me reason not to be. If I like them I may even on occasions do things that could be classed as being kind, but I'll be fucked if be kind is my starting position.

Many if not most of the women on here are what was in old money called 'gender non conforming '.

Is 'gender' based on how the majority act, or an arbitrary definition?

Greer's 'female eunuch' suggested that 'femininity' had little or nothing to do with being a woman.

I'm very kind. I'm just not always very agreeable.

Is 'gender' based on how the majority act, or an arbitrary definition?

Good question!

I've always thought that what came first was patriarchy and oppression, based on women's weaker physical structure and the fact that pregnancy and childbirth, and everything in between, would restrict our "freedoms" and the time that we had to improve on our personal situations, in order to remove barriers.

With patriarchy and oppression embedded, societies were arranged around the Man, and women therefore "became feminine" (meaning oppressed, restricted, and powerless, both physically and societally).

So that became "feminine gender." And all the accoutrements of "feminine gender" were perpetuated and seen as "normal" for women, within society. These became the stereotypes.

Of course, different societies had, and have, different expectations of "feminine gender" ( and, by extension, women). If there have been societies wherein women were expected to be strong, money-making, bringing home the bacon, do all the fighting, etc., then "feminine" in that society would have meant those things.

In most Western, patriarchal societies, however, "feminine " came to mean submissive, obedient, weak, dependent, etc., because that's what women were expected, and allowed, to be.

Does that make sense? Or am I reaching?

You can stand by it as much as you like, it’s still complete nonsense 😂

If TRAs were sick of how toxic the "debate" has become
They shouldn't have started from the point of #nodebate.
They would disband bashback
They would stop making groups cancel pro women groups and speakers
They would stop disrupting meeting that GC women manage to get
They would stop threatening violence/rape
They would stop the piss protests
They would stop vandaling public properties
They wouldn't wear masks to intimidate those with a different view
They would allow lesbians their women only meet ups and let all lesbians (whatever their view) take part in pride.

At least it’s a change from “you don’t care about women in prison, I’m the only person who has ever been in prison or who understands prison or cares about these women” (I know at least one GC FWR poster who is an ex prisoner).

Both clear and up to date.