What TRAs or 'gender' advocates and 'gender critical' feminists agree on.

[WrongKindOfFeminist]

Thought it might be useful to find points of commonality.

Ever the optimist! 😊

1. Gender stereotypes can be restrictive and limiting.

"That 98% in the middle, that's nonbinary" probably 🤣

Chat GPT did provide links actually. And it perfectly aligns with what I found when I searched it a few days ago. About half of the studies show the majority of women specifically believe TWAW and are fine sharing single sex spaces with them.

Here is one I read:

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Home News News New research reveals positive attitudes towards transgender people
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New research reveals positive attitudes towards transgender people
Published: 10 August 2020

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A majority of the public view transphobia as wrong and believe that they are not personally prejudiced towards transgender people, according to the latest figures from a survey commissioned by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC).

Research conducted as part of NatCen’s British Social Attitudes survey on behalf of the EHRC showed that 76% of people surveyed believed prejudice against transgender people was always or mostly wrong. Over 80% of people also believed they were not prejudiced against transgender people.

However, the research also demonstrates a more nuanced debate when it comes to specific circumstances, such as women’s refuges and the use of public toilets.

The survey revealed:

51% of respondents said they would be comfortable or very comfortable with trans women accessing a women’s refuge; with 24% feeling very comfortable and 22% neither agreeing or disagreeing. The percentage who were comfortable or very comfortable had dropped by 10 percentage points from the previous survey in 2016.
The proportion of respondents who said they were not personally prejudiced against transgender people has remained at similar levels, between 82% and 84% since 2016.
The proportion of women who reported themselves to be comfortable with a transgender woman using women’s public toilet decreased from 72% to 66%.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/news/news/new-research-reveals-positive-attitudes-towards-transgender-people

As I said, every study I have seen has shown either women's favour for transgender people and their rights to be where they want to be, or about 50/50 overall. This idea that only a minority of women are okay with trans women in their spaces is a myth you keep.repeating to yourself.

It would have never have got this far if women specifically didn't support trans women as vehemently as they do. You need to accept that many if not most of the women you encounter will not agree with you and will challenge your points. Especially if it claims to speak for all women.

Any time i see a non-trans person speaking about rights for trans people, it is a white woman. I rarely even see trans people publicly speak about it.

It also doesn’t mean it is ‘misogyny’.

Just declaring it is misogyny doesn’t make it so.

I suspect that male people who want to be treated as female people will claim that it is misogyny because it force teams female people’s interest with their own. I suspect people who wish to be considered inclusive claim it is misogyny because of the same reason.

You are on this thread about finding a commonality, and women are rejecting your claim that it is a commonality and you are hypocritically behaving as you have accused others. If women don’t agree it is a commonality and you cannot convince them that it is, you have resorted to attempting to shame them into it.

Women are rejecting your personal agenda because they don’t find the commonality you insist is there.

This is from 2020.

The polling from later years contradicts this.

You need to back up your claim with current information that you have doubled down on repeatedly on this thread.

Changes over time The questions about transgender people’s access to certain spaces were also asked in 2016. The proportion of women who reported themselves to be comfortable with a transgender woman using women’s public toilet decreased over this period from 72% to 66%. The proportion of men who said they would be comfortable with a transgender man using men’s toilets also fell from 64% to 58%, although this was outside the limits of statistical significance. The proportions of respondents who felt comfortable with transgender women using refuges for women experiencing domestic violence fell over this period by 10 percentage points from 61% to 51%. There was a corresponding rise in the proportions who felt uncomfortable with this from 16% in 2016 to 24% in 2019.9

So, on the way down already by 2019. We are now in 2026. Look at the YouGov polling @Lexibletheflexible

What?

Even just in this post you aren't describing the same thing.

Women do not face misogyny because men think that a woman will make them gay.

The proportion of women who reported themselves to be comfortable with a transgender woman using women’s public toilet decreased from 72% to 66%.

That research was done in 2019. A lot has happened in the intervening years. You need only look at the change in attitudes towards trans people in the up to date YouGov surveys which have been linked multiple times now but you choose to ignore them in favour of a seven year old outdated report.

@Helleofabore But it stems from the same rigid gender perception that misogyny comes from. And once again, I'm talking about regular transpeople, not extremist TRAs who think they're actually women.

Also assuming someone who agrees with you on 99% of things must be a TRA and implying they're a man, as you have done multiple times to me now, is doing nothing to help you, but just for complete avoidance of doubt:

I am a woman. I am not a transwoman or a TRA

Poor Jolyon will be very upset about this.

Any time i see a non-trans person speaking about rights for trans people, it is a white woman.

True. There isn't much diversity in TransWorld especially not among the handmaidens & enablers.

You need to stop denying the truth with this no true scotsman fallacy.

As an aside, I suspect you get a particular answer if you use the term 'cisgender'.

If you read your own link the trend was already showing a downward trend.

It was from 2020!

Since then, there have been numerous highly publicised cases and a great deal of discussion. Including about refuges. The trend has continue and been rather dramatic.

of course people don’t think people with transgender identities should experience abuse. However, if a female person doesn’t want to share a female single sex provision with a male person with a transgender identity, they DON’T believe TWAW. Because that is directly contradicting the belief that TWAW. If they fully believed TWAW they would accept those male people using female single sex provisions.

You need to start understanding the flaws in the statement you made.

It hasn't changed that much. Around half of women still are fine with trans women in women's toilets. Arguing otherwise is a waste of time.

No, there are no flaws. I think there is a lot of denial. It may be hard to accept that many women do not agree with you but they don't

No male people are experiencing misogyny!

Experiencing negative outcomes due to sexist stereotypical is NOT misogyny.

I have not implied or said you were a male person. Please, point to where I have.

Mate.

Come back with current research.

You're struggling now.

Many people even answering surveys think 'trans women' are biological females.

If the question is asked 'are you fine with male people in female toilets' ie being actually honest, the results will be actually honest. And not made up nonsense like the made up nonsense you are spinning.

Around half of women still are fine with trans women in women's toilets.

This is a bare faced lie. The YouGov polls show just 25% of women want trans identifying men in female changing rooms with 55% of women opposed.

the same rigid gender perception that misogyny comes from

Misogyny doesn't come from "rigid gender perception". Rigid gender perception is a product of misogyny.

There's a symbiosis, too - misogyny leads to rigid gender roles, and these in turn enable/encourage misogyny. But to say it originates in gender as opposed to sex, and in the subjective perception of this as opposed to actual physical reality, is to detach it from its meaning in a way that disadvantages women and girls: the female bodies subject to it.

I actually agree that misogyny can manifest in a range of ways, impacting a range of demographics. But what it is, is hatred/fear/suspicion of female bodies. It's important that this understanding isn't diluted or lost: women and girls need to be able to describe it without ambiguity in order to challenge it.

Discussion of attitudes towards trans women is academic anyway because without any criteria to define trans women the only choices are between mixed toilets and single sex toilets.