Trying to understand everyday views on sex and gender discussions

[Schallern]

Hi,

I hope this is the right place for this post.

I am a bisexual female and have been friends for years with a very liberal, LGBT crowd. Past “trans women are women”, I never questioned anything.

I’m in my mid to late 20s now and I’ve recently expanded my social circle. As a result of this and moving away from purely LGBT spaces, I’ve had a lot more exposure to a wider range of political and social opinions.

A big one of these is the realisation that my previously, narrower social circle was very much an echo chamber. We just accepted everyone. That is lovely in some senses, but I also understand the world isn’t that simple.

Thing is, I’m struggling to even work out my feelings.

I’ve been taught that anything less than fully accepting trans people as the gender they want to present as is transphobic.

I suppose in my mind the two sides are a) complete acceptance and b) complete denial and erasure of trans-people and outright transphobia.

I’m interested in what exists in the middle. What do normal, everyday, people believe? What is the most “common” view on trans issues? Outside of my own echo chamber, where does the line lie?

I understand this forum leans very heavily in one direction. However, that’s why I’m asking here. Do you discuss trans issues with your friends and own social circles? Does it even come up? What kind of conversations do you have?

I suppose I’m trying to get a gist for what “acceptable” opinions are outside of my own social scene. Like I said, it’s just “trans women are women.” Anything less is considered erasure and denial and would have an individual cast out!

Happy to answer any questions. I’m trying to think more critically and actually work out what my own opinions are. And please note that whilst I have obviously described myself as coming from a very liberal background, I’m very open to hearing views as I no longer know what mine are. It’s amazing how quickly things change once you’re in the “real world.”

Perhaps they don’t want to tell you what they actually think. Especially if you’re dismissive of their social class, as you are here. You do know that people can tell when people feel superior to them?

I think it would have no bearing on male guards at all. That's kind of the point. Nobody is trying to police you, just pointing out that it is obvious your interest is not in female prisoners and you don't care about them.

Lol I think youve misunderstood my point if you think having a go at writing in the accent of your research participants or sources is the right way to treat them.

They are in my social class, silly. Are they in yours?

Yes that is the only time ive ever seen any views of female prisoners. As I said, the main thing seemed to be hiw they differentiate between pre and post op.

Because you're guessing. Writing the sentence structure and syntax verbatim is different to guessing one might spell "three" in the way a person like me might say it.

I'm pretty sure if they were written in 'perfect' English the complaint would be prisoners don't talk like that.

Yeah, I'm a Scottish woman and this poster is insulting as fuck.

No it wouldnt. It would be less patronising IMO

...ok.

It’s not a guess, it’s a direct transcription. There are standard procedures for accurately transcribing speech in this way. And in fact there are plenty of Scots dialect speakers who write in the way that those statements are written.

It’s an odd thing to be picky about. Makes it look like you think the statements are made up, or that you doubt that they’re accurate in some way.

It was just dismissive, because of the contempt this poster holds for women who care about single sex spaces. It was totally unnecessary.

It wasnt written in any dialect of Scots

I dont have any contempt for you for wanting single sex spaces. I have contempt for you for using prisoners to make your points when you don't give a shit about them at all.

This is just it ^^ .

It is an issue that if left is an additional risk element. It is very easily resolved, just as you say.

I am not sure why there is so much discussion about it. It seems to be a very easy issue to solve.

Is there any additional risk to female prisoners? Yes. There is. It would be an absurdity to deny this.

It is fucking irrelevant if the majority say they consent or that they don’t mind. If one woman says no, that is all that should be required. Because it is a FEMALE prison estate.

That’s entirely your assumption, and whataboutery. I’ll continue to campaign for single sex spaces wherever they are needed. Like prisons. I don’t need your permission or approval and I don’t give a single fuck what you or your similarly misguided mates think about anything @Lexibletheflexible hope that helps.

What were you holding out for, Lallans with a peerie Highland lilt?

And you do realise that the vast majority of women want single sex spaces without men in them? Accept that your views about trans issues are a minority view and leave those women alone.

This is a board for discussions about the impact of gender identity. I care because I have had a female family member in prison, am I allowed to care about various issues without having to declare it to you for you to feel I care enough?

Or can we continue on with the discussion without having to pass your standard of caring for other issues before we can do so?

Yes, there is the Feminist Chat board for non trans related discussions. Plus AIBU, Chat etc.

Maybe something like fae Outlander?

While we're talking about prisoners - Janey Sutherley lost parole for criticising prison policy.

'Sutherley’s defence lawyer yesterday said his client had lost out on a chance of gaining parole because of the charges which had been hanging over her, and said the case should have ‘never made it to court’.
Criminal lawyer Paul Lynch said: ‘The only time a complaint was made against Ms Sutherley was after she stood up for the rights of her fellow female inmates following the publicity surrounding the case of Adam Graham, which caused a media storm and resulted in the Scottish Prison Service re-routing Adam Graham from Cornton Vale back to the male estate.’'

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-14736673/Killer-set-sue-Scotlands-prison-service-forced-share-jail-man.html

So I'm not all that surprised if many female prisoners are more reticent on the subject.

No… according to the poster, this never happened nor does it ever happen.

(Thank you for posting it, by the way, I couldn’t get WiFi access to post the link.)

On the other thread I posted a video of Dr Kate Coleman reading out a letter by FDJ, the female prisoner who bought an unsuccessful judicial review against MoJ, making very clear how much she and others were harmed by the policies apparently no female prisoners care about. Except when they do.

Was that about Amy’s court case?

I was trying to find a link for her case too.

No it was 5 years ago - it’s on YouTube.