How explain trans ideology to inclusivity trained friend

[Whatnown]

Hello, I’m trying to explain all the trans stuff to friends without sounding nuts. I’ve explained that it’s not a rebellious youth thing, it’s from blokes in frocks who own some big pharma companies and want big profits, also men in frocks who want their fetishes normalised, also men in frocks who want to perve, also confused young people who are being told their normal curiosity means they must be trans. But I’m doubting how measured I sound, and it sounds a bit mad if you are speaking to a cynical friend that has had inclusivity training.

gCan anyone recommend links to anything that explains all this for the dubious and cynical? I have sent her the link to the actual essay by jk Rowling https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
other suggestions helpful!
im sure I can’t be the first to ask this, maybe the results could be pinned at the top of the thread like on several other threads?
thank you!

The concept of gender identity is firmly established, and is not disputed outside gender critical circles. We interrogate internal mental states all the time in psychology - it's not remotely controversial. Being transgender cannot be transmitted, is not an ideology.

Nonsense. You can’t even define what it means.

What does internal mental state have to do with sex, interrogated or not? I could drop dead this moment and have no internal mental state at all but my body would still be the exact same sex as it was when it had an internal mental state.

It is certainly true that some people believe they have a gender identity and that there is a right and wrong gender identity for a man or woman.

What isn't clear is what that has to do with anyone else.

There is very little point in me explaining the established science on gender identity to gender critical people. Google is your friend. I suggest you look outside the narrow views of unqualified gender critical commentators.

There has been an explosive growth in the number of people claiming a transgender identity in the last ten years especially among adolescent girls. Schools used to have outbreaks of pupils suffering self harm or anorexia but now replaced by outbreaks of transgenderism. If it's not a social contagion how do you explain this growth?

Is google where you got your supposed expertise from?

Can't help thinking that if this were right, that study that shows that trans identifying males do NOT have female brains would not be quoted so regularly on MN by posters trying to demonstrate the opposite.

OP, you might want to ask her how a man saying that he is "really" a woman differs from somebody with no black heritage whatsoever saying that they are "really" black.

I just had a conversation with a young woman that had a different opinion to me. After the conversation had finished I thought I probably should have just recommended reading some detransitioner stories such as Kiera Bell's story.

Also I think the trial of Eldur Smári Kristinssona the well-known Icelandic gay rights activist and writer, is a good one to point to.

Or perhaps reading a book like Wild Swans as there are obvious comparisons with institutional dogma and the desire for conformity of thought causing many young people to shut down their capacity for challenging their beliefs. Books can be good for opening up people's capacity to think.

Imagine how courageous you would have to be to think something different from all your friends if you are 20? Think what it would cost you? There is a good chance if you thought differently to your friends you would be ostracised.

Anyway, detransitioner stories are what I will try next time!

And will you be honest about how extremely rare detransition is? And that in the rare cases someone does detransition, the most common reason given is loss of family and community support and experiencing transphobia, not just changing their mind?

Nobody knows how common or rare it is because the follow up studies haven't been done.

There is existing research. You have access to the internet.

The existing research is of extremely poor quality. It also is generally quite old, not reflecting the significant differences in the cohort of those transitioning in the last 10-15 years.

This is all in the Cass Report.

Also in the Cass report, the extraordinary lack of follow up from the nhs trusts among those who’d been through gender related services

More on detransition studies here:

https://genspect.substack.com/p/going-forward-and-turning-back-transition

And also here
https://benryan.substack.com/p/how-common-is-detransitioning

All I would say is that it doesn’t matter how someone dresses, how much make up they wear, how much cosmetic surgery they have or how many hormones they ingest, somebody born male will always be male. They can’t think they’re a woman any more than anybody might think they are a paintbrush. Physiologically the difference is imbued at DNA level. A mediocre male bodied sportsman will always beat females - even with hormone restrictions - because they have had the benefit of skeletal and muscular advantage from the womb. Their testosterone markers are still way higher.

Once you’ve established that men still retain their physical advantage (and some would argue innate male privilege) and you factor in that men commit the most violent and sexual crime - you need to protect girls and women. And yes, we all know your gentle and sensitive trans mate wouldn't hurt a fly but the only way to unilaterally protect females is to differentiate by sex. Not by self selecting outward presentation.

Yes, you can find many things on the internet, however, that does not mean that high quality research exists.

In particular we know that there was a huge increase in referrals in the 2010s and patients were not tracked.

…Oh and if she is EDI trained she’ll be aware of the power wheel. Males are still at the top of the tree, power-wise, so anything they are doing to minimise the rights of a group who have less power (women and children in this case) is an abuse of power. Trans ideology that benefits males is inherently unfair, unjust and inequitable.

And the excuses used to prop it up come straight out the rules of misogny.

1. Women are responsible for what men do.
2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
5. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
7. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.
13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.
14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.
15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.
16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

The young woman I was taking to was very keen on personal stories and also concerned that 'the most marginalised be heard' so I think it is a reasonable thing to suggest listening to some detransitioner stories.

This was not a new subject to her. She would have been very engaged with it for the last ten years or so but not talking to anyone with a different point of view.

Thanks for the links!

See other links I posted earlier for analysis on rate of detransition (which is unknown but definitely not extremely rare).

Lisa Littman’s 2021 study on transition suggests that there are many reasons for detransitioning

”Reasons for detransitioning were varied and included: experiencing discrimination (23.0%); becoming more comfortable identifying as their natal sex (60.0%); having concerns about potential medical complications from transitioning (49.0%); and coming to the view that their gender dysphoria was caused by something specific such as trauma, abuse, or a mental health condition (38.0%). Homophobia or difficulty accepting themselves as lesbian, gay, or bisexual was expressed by 23.0% as a reason for transition and subsequent detransition. The majority (55.0%) felt that they did not receive an adequate evaluation from a doctor or mental health professional before starting transition and only 24.0% of respondents informed their clinicians that they had detransitioned.”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34665380/

You could signpost your friend to the Genspect Detransition Awareness Day page (there are links to videos of the speeches at the end of the page)

https://genspect.org/detrans-awareness-day-2026/

For me it was an article debunking the "gender spectrum" idea:
https://aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Oh, well if it’s in the CASS REPORT…definitely not any methodological or scientific concerns about that!

Well off you go. List your concerns …