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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How explain trans ideology to inclusivity trained friend

222 replies

Whatnown · 11/07/2026 09:11

Hello, I’m trying to explain all the trans stuff to friends without sounding nuts. I’ve explained that it’s not a rebellious youth thing, it’s from blokes in frocks who own some big pharma companies and want big profits, also men in frocks who want their fetishes normalised, also men in frocks who want to perve, also confused young people who are being told their normal curiosity means they must be trans. But I’m doubting how measured I sound, and it sounds a bit mad if you are speaking to a cynical friend that has had inclusivity training.

gCan anyone recommend links to anything that explains all this for the dubious and cynical? I have sent her the link to the actual essay by jk Rowling https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
other suggestions helpful!
im sure I can’t be the first to ask this, maybe the results could be pinned at the top of the thread like on several other threads?
thank you!

J.K. Rowling Writes about Her Reasons for Speaking out on Sex and Gender Issues - J.K. Rowling

Warning: The below content is not appropriate for children. Please check with an adult before you read this page. To go back to the children’s page, please click here. This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I...

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 23/08/2026 05:56

TheLemonMember · 23/08/2026 00:33

Safeguarding is a false argument for the exclusion trans individuals using spaces that aren't defined as being a refuge. Forcing who outwardly looks like a man or a woman but biologically one is exposing the gery abuse you seek to prevent. The spent by "For Women Scotland" would far better spent funding women only refuges intend turning the clock back to the 1970s. The they opposed has specific safeguards for single sex refuges.
If you check history of public toilets and the suffrage movement, bathing other facilities were exclusively male untill the early 20th century. That why the early suffragette movement coined the term "urinary lease".
Safeguarding victims by providing safe refuge was never a problem beyond the general lack such spaces the spent by running into random public toilet or changing room as a means of excaping abuse is neither likely or even practical as means protection. Primarily because most abuse occurs in the privacy of the home or is perpetrated by people in positions of trust
It far more important readily accessible accommodation like hotels have policies in place the protect the privacy of guests and that children can seek shelter away from the source of abuse.

”Safeguarding is a false argument for the exclusion trans individuals using spaces that aren't defined as being a refuge.”

Again, this highlights your own lack of safeguarding understanding.

We know and understand the history of public provisions for female people and we know what the ‘urinary leash’ refers to. You keep using the term, yet you fail to consider that allowing male people access to female publicly accessible female single sex provisions reintroduces that urinary leash.

Safeguarding principles are the reason female single sex provisions were introduced in the first place. How long it took to introduce those provisions due to a sexist society is not relevant to the discussion about why we need them.

Your historical references don’t support whatever the argument you are trying and failing to make.

Forcing who outwardly looks like a man or a woman but biologically one is exposing the gery abuse you seek to prevent.

I assume you are referring to female people being asked if they are in the correct toilet as being ‘abuse’? Many of the regular posters, including me, have been questioned over the decades. It has always happened and it is not abuse. It is an interaction that allows other female people to be confident of the sex of the person they are sharing a single sex provision with because those provisions are not monitored in any other way.

If anything has caused this to be more of an issue, it is the fact that an identification check by security or police in the very rare instances where people are stopped and asked becomes a significant issue because that identification is now unreliable due to the ability to change sex markers on legal identification documents. This then requires careful handling that is more than simply seeing identification to confirm sex category.

Safeguarding victims by providing safe refuge was never a problem beyond the general lack such spaces the spent by running into random public toilet or changing room as a means of excaping abuse is neither likely or even practical as means protection. Primarily because most abuse occurs in the privacy of the home or is perpetrated by people in positions of trust

I can only assume what you are referring to here. By all means, correct any wrong interpretation.

Another fallacious argument that we see quite often on this board is that toilets and changing rooms are not safe at all because of the huge proportion of abuse occurring at home or by known people. It fails for several reasons.

One is because abuse and incidents still do occur in female single sex provisions by male people who enter and always did. Why wouldn’t decision makers want to limit risk even if that risk is overwhelmed by abuse in the home?

Of course, the number of harmful incidents reported in mixed sex provisions is also significant. So, that then is evidence that these single sex provisions do provide a safer environment for female people. Also the logic is irrefutable that a male person who accesses a female single sex provision over the age of about 8-10 years old changes that provision into ‘mixed sex’.

Another reason the argument fails is why the fuck should abuse victims not expect to have their needs considered for publicly accessed provisions? Why should they not be able to access female single sex provisions out in public if they need those provisions to be female single sex? There are many many posts on this board and social media of female people describing how they are hugely concerned and sometimes retraumatised by the prospect of any male person above about 8 years old being in a space that those female people feel vulnerable in.

It is not supporting those victims of abuse to remove female single sex provisions. Just because their abuse occurred at home, why should they not be supported to go out of the home? It also ignores the accounts of those female victims of allowing any male domestic abuser to continue their abuse by following them into a space that should be private and relatively safe. Removal of privacy is just one type of abuse an abuser may use.

It is a contradiction that someone professing to be concerned about trauma care then advocates the removal of provisions that give support in public to those traumatised female people. It was always a flawed argument.

Plus the other contradictory aspect of saying ‘there are no safe spaces anyway’ is really then highlighting that male people making the demand that they use those female single sex provisions for their personal safety are wrong to do so. Because if female people are not safe there anyway, those male people will not be safe either. If female people have to risk attack in their provision because there are no ‘safe’ spaces, those male people cannot use the argument that those are safe spaces for them either.

If male people need an alternative solution for them, they need to find that solution. It may be finding an alternative provision, or campaigning for making male single sex provisions safer for all male people and normalising male people with any identity using male single sex provision. The solution is not use the female single sex provision and it never was the solution.

It is a deeply flawed argument to declare that female single sex provisions are not ‘safe’ anyway. Those provisions were never provided with the intention that they were 100% guaranteed safe, nothing is. They were provided to minimise the risk of harm as much as possible in a non-monitored publicly accessible environment.

For clarity, harm is also not restricted to physical harm either. It is inaccurate to focus only on that risk of physical harm when discussing safeguarding.

Allowing a group of male people to access them increases that risk of harm to an unacceptable level. It is the very opposite of strong safeguarding principle and practice.

Helleofabore · 23/08/2026 05:58

Helleofabore · 23/08/2026 04:44

Telling women what they should be focusing on and directing them on how they should be spending their money can be considered misogynistic.

However, your point is important, but in highlighting one reason why more funding is needed in the provision of rape crisis. To pay for legal action against them to provide female single sex care.

Considering a woman in Scotland also had to spend money to expose the issue of the policies which failed to single sex appropriate deliver care to female people by the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, your post really doesn’t seem to highlight the issue in quite the way you intended.

The centre had a policy of dishonestly telling those who questioned the sex category of the person giving them support that the centre ‘“does not have any men on their volunteer team”. This was in response to anyone questioning whether the female support provider who was non binary was female or male when they had asked for a female care provider. The counsellor, Roz Adams pointed out that the policy was harmful to the female people needing care.

The policies were, of course, enforced by the male person who not only applied for and was accepted in a role designated as being for female people. Who was also on the volunteer team as well, despite having little experience in counselling rape victims. We even had a poster here confirm this when she told us she had been ‘counselled’ by him.

That male counsellor announced in a interview that any female person who questioned a male person with a transgender identity’s sex category, would be educated to not be a bigot and to accept male people were female people if the male person said so.

He also famously said

“But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.”

Because of the number of female people in Edinburgh and the surrounding area who started to exclude themselves from care knowing Wadhwa was there and enforcing those policies, Bieras Place was opened. Specifically providing female only care to female people. No gaslighting or ambiguous answers to direct questions about the sex category of support givers there.

Then there was also the Brighton rape crisis centre where a female person was denied care because she asked for a female only support group. That case was settled before court after the FWS decision.

But, according to you, FWS funding should have been better spent on giving money to rape crisis centres for care to female people…

Oops.

However, your point is important, but in highlighting one reason why more funding is needed in the provision of rape crisis. To pay for legal action against them to provide female single sex care.

should be

However, your point is important, but in highlighting one reason why more funding is needed in the provision of rape crisis. To pay for legal action against them to force them to provide female single sex care.

Igneococcus · 23/08/2026 06:32

It is inherently flawed logic infer such determinism. Genetically Indentical twins might look and even sound the same but will have different personalities even though shared experiences.

But they will absolutely have the same sex.

DeanElderberry · 23/08/2026 07:39

Going back to the OP, I might start where I started myself, with my concern for an intelligent, sparky, probably autistic young woman I knew, a troubled scholarship pupil at a very prestigious competitive school that used to have a reputation for contagious anorexia and now has one for contagious gender identification.

Now bearded, walking with a stick, scarred, hormonally damaged and facing osteoporosis and other post-menopausal problems in her late twenties. Luckily she started the process late, so her brain had a chance to develop.

But she has cut herself off from the general community of women by making it apparent in her appearance that she rejects and despises them, while men are not going to see a rounded 5'2" figure as anything other than female, not one of them. An ego-driven campaign of self-harm is having an isolating effect.

So basically, her social cohort is going to be other genderism victims. I fear her middle age is going to be increasingly lonely, even without the catastrophic health effects. My heart breaks for her (and the family she was encouraged to alienate herself from), and I have no respect for the ideology that simpered in fake 'kindness' while all that happened.

Transmen are not men.

sanluca · 23/08/2026 07:58

I would start that inclusivity doesn't mean treating everyone the same but trying to ensure everyone takes part. And that trans ideology as a consequence of treating male and female people the same has as a consequence that some female people will self exclude from taking part. The answer should not then be 'get over it' of 'tough luck'. It should be what can we do to ensure both female people as trans people have the opportunity to take part. If your friend is really about inclusion then the answer they give should be along the lines of single sex and gender neutral. If that is the answer, then ask them why transwomen are so dead set against that solution.

For trans healthcare, the question should be are we willing to risk the destruction of the healthy bodies of children who change their minds to ensure the extremely small number of children who grow up to be transgender, pass better? As long as your friends accepts medical healthcare for trans people has serious negative side effects. If they don't and it is all rainbows and sunshine, then this question won't work and there is no discussion possible.

Helleofabore · 23/08/2026 08:29

For anyone who thinks there is any credibility in the claims that Helen Joyce has anti-Semitic views, here is what she says about the content that at least one poster on this thread claims has been written from and anti-Semitic point of view.

”In my book I demonstrate that mainstream transactivism is not a grassroots movement, but a top-down one. One part of the evidence is that rich individuals and foundations make large donations to campaign groups that, among other things, lobby to erase biological sex from law and to enshrine gender identity in its place. Some of that money is tied to campaigns for gender self-ID. I discuss the ACLU, HRC and Stonewall in most detail, but there are many others. And I give a sense of the funding that comes from rich individuals by discussing three examples: George Soros via the Open Societies Foundation; Jennifer Pritzker via the Tawani Foundation; and Jon Stryker via the Arcus Foundation.”

“This is in no sense “dark money”, and I don’t say it is. The information is readily available because all such American foundations and charities are legally required to publish details of where they get their money and what they spend it on. I found the information on their websites. This makes a nonsense of Bilek’s claim that I plagiarised her: that these foundations donate heavily to campaign groups that press for gender self-ID is publicly available information, and she and I are not the only ones to have pointed it out.”

“I didn’t deliberately select three Jewish donors; it never occurred to me to think about their religions. Two of the three, it turns out, are indeed Jewish, though that is not something I mention in my book because it is utterly irrelevant. Judging by the tenor of conversation on Twitter, Jon Stryker may or may not be Jewish: his religion appears not to be a matter of public record. I have not sought to ascertain it, because—again—I think it’s irrelevant. I also think it’s interesting that the people accusing me of antisemitic dog-whistles are speculating about someone’s religion, when I did not even speculate about it.”

TheLemonMember · 23/08/2026 11:03

sanluca · 23/08/2026 07:58

I would start that inclusivity doesn't mean treating everyone the same but trying to ensure everyone takes part. And that trans ideology as a consequence of treating male and female people the same has as a consequence that some female people will self exclude from taking part. The answer should not then be 'get over it' of 'tough luck'. It should be what can we do to ensure both female people as trans people have the opportunity to take part. If your friend is really about inclusion then the answer they give should be along the lines of single sex and gender neutral. If that is the answer, then ask them why transwomen are so dead set against that solution.

For trans healthcare, the question should be are we willing to risk the destruction of the healthy bodies of children who change their minds to ensure the extremely small number of children who grow up to be transgender, pass better? As long as your friends accepts medical healthcare for trans people has serious negative side effects. If they don't and it is all rainbows and sunshine, then this question won't work and there is no discussion possible.

Fact: The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates that among female survivors aged 16 and older who experienced sexual assault by rape or penetration, 45% were assaulted by a current or former partner.
The above fact is taken from refuge.org!
Changing rooms and and spaces aren't somewhere hide or aviod abuse. Refuges like those managed by Refuge.org are created as safe spaces.
That take another directly from a coercive control case I was called to juror on. One early incident involved a argument after meal when the young woman wanted a second room rather the use man's prebooked double! Whilst the Police were calked by bystander it wasn't logged as an incident beyond initial call. In another the perp followed her into a single sex toilet area at a restaurant and sexually assaulted her in a cubicle he barged into it!. Again he felt it his due right after a day at the seaside! We the jurors, had go though hours of social media chit chat. We coukd see the manipulation pattern he used where the young woman eventually for protestations of requited love. I could see that perp had an impossiblly idealised view the perfect relationship that drove him to use escalating coercive force. In her case she eventually foundstrength to report and bravery it to court!
The above case is the reason I now donate to charities like refuge.org! I'm also friends with several trans individuals nearly all if whom have suffered assaults and random abuse. Given that trans people very small minority this prevalence is ab indicator of the institutional indifference toward them.
This abuse simply isn't recognised by the CPS and largely it's goes unreported and is difficult prove due lack witness testimony.
Th trans minority represent onlt 0.5 to 1.6 of the population the incidence of assault is staggeringly high! Vilifying potentially potentially voilent deviants isdiversionary argument.
The rising manoshpere trend fed the likes of Andrew Tate is far more insidious danger to womens safety. It promotes concept that women culpablly responsible by provoking the violence against them!
The tiny minority trans men and women pose little treat to anyone if compared violence male behaviour.

TheKeatingFive · 23/08/2026 11:13

I’ve said this before

But acknowledging that women are unsafe in their own homes to justify making their public spaces less safe by allowing men in - is as morally bankrupt am argument as I can imagine

Helleofabore · 23/08/2026 11:27

”I'm also friends with several trans individuals nearly all if whom have suffered assaults and random abuse.”

I am sorry to hear this. However, I doubt that the CPS is specifically ignoring these crimes. In fact, the CPS has included gender identity as being able to added as hate crime factor. Unlike misogyny which is not a hate crime factor.

Either way, your argument continues to fail because allowing a group of male people above the age of about 8 years old into the female single sex provisions creates higher risk for female people in those female single sex provisions.

And when you then consider this against the needs of other vulnerable male groups, why does this group get additional privilege (ie. delivering a solution that is over and above the standard human rights that should be available to all male people) and other groups do not?

And again, increasing the risk of harm to female people who are already survivors of trauma and abuse is not the solution for providing provisions for a group of male people who reject using their own single sex provisions.

If, by your argument ‘no female person is safe in those spaces anyway’, then there is no safety to be expected there for male people with transgender identities either. Your own arguments undermine each other. The logic simply isn’t coherent.

DeanElderberry · 23/08/2026 11:45

TheLemonMember · 23/08/2026 11:03

Fact: The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates that among female survivors aged 16 and older who experienced sexual assault by rape or penetration, 45% were assaulted by a current or former partner.
The above fact is taken from refuge.org!
Changing rooms and and spaces aren't somewhere hide or aviod abuse. Refuges like those managed by Refuge.org are created as safe spaces.
That take another directly from a coercive control case I was called to juror on. One early incident involved a argument after meal when the young woman wanted a second room rather the use man's prebooked double! Whilst the Police were calked by bystander it wasn't logged as an incident beyond initial call. In another the perp followed her into a single sex toilet area at a restaurant and sexually assaulted her in a cubicle he barged into it!. Again he felt it his due right after a day at the seaside! We the jurors, had go though hours of social media chit chat. We coukd see the manipulation pattern he used where the young woman eventually for protestations of requited love. I could see that perp had an impossiblly idealised view the perfect relationship that drove him to use escalating coercive force. In her case she eventually foundstrength to report and bravery it to court!
The above case is the reason I now donate to charities like refuge.org! I'm also friends with several trans individuals nearly all if whom have suffered assaults and random abuse. Given that trans people very small minority this prevalence is ab indicator of the institutional indifference toward them.
This abuse simply isn't recognised by the CPS and largely it's goes unreported and is difficult prove due lack witness testimony.
Th trans minority represent onlt 0.5 to 1.6 of the population the incidence of assault is staggeringly high! Vilifying potentially potentially voilent deviants isdiversionary argument.
The rising manoshpere trend fed the likes of Andrew Tate is far more insidious danger to womens safety. It promotes concept that women culpablly responsible by provoking the violence against them!
The tiny minority trans men and women pose little treat to anyone if compared violence male behaviour.

You do know that virtually all girls and women experience sexual assault from puberty onwards. At least 50 years of that crap in any women's lifetime, often more.

The figure of 97% was given in one survey - seems a bit low to me. And almost all of them live in their own homes, many of them with partners.

The fact that partners can become assailants is sad but inevitable. That experience, which is a learning experience, forms a huge, big, major, important reason why women want to avoid forced interaction with strange men in vulnerable situations that they cannot control.

Transwomen are strange men.

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 23/08/2026 12:58

TheLemonMember · 22/08/2026 21:08

The creationist and evolutionary asserriotion biology defining phycological behavior is naive to the point of absurdity. Human consciousness is uniquely aware of its surroundings and the limitations of perception places the nterpretation of external sensory stimuli. If all men were aggressive potential rapists for whom a women are simply chattels whose sole purpose is reproductive on nature. Then society would be on a darkly violent path to self destruction.
Diversity creates adaptability and promotes survival by promoting cooperation and empathy.
It wasn't untill early 20th and WW1 that women gained the freedom to seek independent employment, to travel away from their residence. The so called "Uinary leash" was only lifted as consequence of WW1 and the wartime labour shortage.
I do feel that the today's feminists have forgotten is how hard the fight for today's freedoms from the endemic misogynist male domination of the 20th and 19th centuries was. Why are we throwing the hard won victories of equality back into misogyny by vilifying and victimising minorities in same way all women were historically treated.
Traditional native cultures like those of North American natives recognise the concept that a person's inner spirit may not align with the physicality of their bodies. Before water closets and indoor plumbing toilets were a simply hole in ground dug some distance away from the main dwelling. They generally dug once for to use everyone in community. Indeed Roman and Greek public bathing facilities of antiquity were communal! Why today's obsession with segregation?

Indeed Roman and Greek public bathing facilities of antiquity were communal! Why today's obsession with segregation?

Roman and Greek public bathing facilities were indeed communal but they were also very strictly segregated by sex. The patriarchy was even stronger in antiquity.

MyAmpleSheep · 23/08/2026 13:39

I think if people want a society where public nudity of both sexes jointly is normal, they’re welcome to say so, and to campaign for it.

I suspect though that’s not what most trans-identifying people want; it would ruin the effect of being allowed to into the other sex facilities. Remember, if everyone is special then nobody is special.

Helleofabore · 23/08/2026 13:40

DeanElderberry · 23/08/2026 11:45

You do know that virtually all girls and women experience sexual assault from puberty onwards. At least 50 years of that crap in any women's lifetime, often more.

The figure of 97% was given in one survey - seems a bit low to me. And almost all of them live in their own homes, many of them with partners.

The fact that partners can become assailants is sad but inevitable. That experience, which is a learning experience, forms a huge, big, major, important reason why women want to avoid forced interaction with strange men in vulnerable situations that they cannot control.

Transwomen are strange men.

This is the thing.

There really is not symmetry in the argument about the % of people in each group being assaulted or abused and then not followed up by police. The abuse and assault of female people is vastly higher and virtually unreported or recorded in any way.

Whereas, we know from the reporting of women that male people with transgender identities will report crimes and perceived crimes against them. Male people reported JK Rowling for crimes they believed she committed where they were the victim. We have women reported and questioned for stickers supporting women’s rights.

There appears to be little symmetry. Yet, we are continually presented with claims. Like that so often misused ‘four times’ statement or the increase in hate crime in the UK statement that doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. Again because there is no data collected for similar hate crimes against female people.

It is also, bluntly, irrelevant as to why female people should lose single sex provision because one group of male people demanded access. There is no logic that holds true in all the reasoning we keep seeing used.

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 23/08/2026 13:48

TheLemonMember · 23/08/2026 11:03

Fact: The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates that among female survivors aged 16 and older who experienced sexual assault by rape or penetration, 45% were assaulted by a current or former partner.
The above fact is taken from refuge.org!
Changing rooms and and spaces aren't somewhere hide or aviod abuse. Refuges like those managed by Refuge.org are created as safe spaces.
That take another directly from a coercive control case I was called to juror on. One early incident involved a argument after meal when the young woman wanted a second room rather the use man's prebooked double! Whilst the Police were calked by bystander it wasn't logged as an incident beyond initial call. In another the perp followed her into a single sex toilet area at a restaurant and sexually assaulted her in a cubicle he barged into it!. Again he felt it his due right after a day at the seaside! We the jurors, had go though hours of social media chit chat. We coukd see the manipulation pattern he used where the young woman eventually for protestations of requited love. I could see that perp had an impossiblly idealised view the perfect relationship that drove him to use escalating coercive force. In her case she eventually foundstrength to report and bravery it to court!
The above case is the reason I now donate to charities like refuge.org! I'm also friends with several trans individuals nearly all if whom have suffered assaults and random abuse. Given that trans people very small minority this prevalence is ab indicator of the institutional indifference toward them.
This abuse simply isn't recognised by the CPS and largely it's goes unreported and is difficult prove due lack witness testimony.
Th trans minority represent onlt 0.5 to 1.6 of the population the incidence of assault is staggeringly high! Vilifying potentially potentially voilent deviants isdiversionary argument.
The rising manoshpere trend fed the likes of Andrew Tate is far more insidious danger to womens safety. It promotes concept that women culpablly responsible by provoking the violence against them!
The tiny minority trans men and women pose little treat to anyone if compared violence male behaviour.

That take another directly from a coercive control case I was called to juror on.

You do know that it's contempt of court to discuss what happened when you served on a jury? This from the Ministry of Justice website

Do not post comments about the trial on social media, even after the trial’s finished. This is contempt of court and you can be fined or sent to prison.

www.gov.uk/jury-service/discussing-the-trial

MyAmpleSheep · 23/08/2026 13:56

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 23/08/2026 13:48

That take another directly from a coercive control case I was called to juror on.

You do know that it's contempt of court to discuss what happened when you served on a jury? This from the Ministry of Justice website

Do not post comments about the trial on social media, even after the trial’s finished. This is contempt of court and you can be fined or sent to prison.

www.gov.uk/jury-service/discussing-the-trial

You can report things from the trial. You must not report what happened or what was said during jury deliberations.

Helleofabore · 23/08/2026 15:20

The rising manoshpere trend fed the likes of Andrew Tate is far more insidious danger to womens safety. It promotes concept that women culpablly responsible by provoking the violence against them!

The tiny minority trans men and women pose little treat to anyone if compared violence male behaviour.

This doesn’t really hold up as an argument as intended.

This ‘manosphere’ and the ‘TERF bigots deserve it’ seems to stem from the same source. Male behaviour. As in the behaviour of the male people doing it. The motivation seems to be all too similar.

That motivation is male people having power over female people.

This poster seems to ignore the constant acts of violence and threats and intimidation that a sub group of the group of male people with transgender identities have shown towards female people. Preventing female people meeting and/or talking about their needs. The protests, the police reporting, the social media threats and intimidation.

Well, sure in absolute terms the threats might be small in comparison to the sheer number of threats, violent acts and intimidating incidents. Having personally experienced that intimidation first hand, I don’t believe any attempt to dismiss that these things happen. And I don’t think that having a transgender identity moves that group out of the range of risk the general male population in the UK has of acting with intimidation, or threat and acts of violence.

There is certainly no evidence this group fits into the female sex based risk profile of the general female population of the UK.

I think anyone arguing that needs to provide evidence that supports it. Otherwise, I think it is just misinformation.

It is just a constant stream of emotional pleas and misinformation based on flawed logic, false comparisons and inaccurate generalisations.

TheKeatingFive · 23/08/2026 15:43

I see a huge amount of overlap between the likes of Tate and the TRAs.

Neither believe in women’s rights, neither acknowledge women’s boundaries, neither respect women’s consent.

All incels, just slightly different flavours 🤷‍♀️

Canadanian · 24/08/2026 18:08

Helleofabore · 22/08/2026 22:04

Acknowledging that Joyce could have shown more sensitivity / awareness when she chose her examples if she didn’t want to contribute to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories wouldn’t take anything away from your gender critical beliefs.

So, she is to blame that you and others choose to take such bad faith interpretations of her work where she used commonly used language?

Righto.

Yes, she is to blame for using anti-Semitic examples and language in her book, which she wrote 😂

FanOfGailDines · 24/08/2026 18:23

Since Helen Joyce is being denigrated by some comments in this feed, for those who haven't heard her talk or read her work, here is the outstanding Helen Joyce being interviewed:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mX941cM-FI

Helleofabore · 24/08/2026 18:51

Canadanian · 24/08/2026 18:08

Yes, she is to blame for using anti-Semitic examples and language in her book, which she wrote 😂

You haven’t produced a skerrick of evidence. You have made bad faith representations about what she wrote.

You can laugh all you want but it doesn’t make your accusation valid.

Considering you have not evidenced much of what you have posted, I don’t believe that your misrepresentations stand up to scrutiny.

Mouldemort · 25/08/2026 12:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FanOfGailDines · 25/08/2026 12:50

Quote below taken from TransgenderTrend website looking at findings of the Cass Review. It is reasonable to express the view that social influence in teen girls is a factor.

  • An acknowledgment of social influences, including pornography, online and social media and peer pressure. The report points out that ‘social contagion’ is the most hotly contested explanation for the exponential rise in the number of children adopting a trans identity, but the examples included show the influences clearly.
  • Although no direct reference to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, acknowledgment throughout the report that the majority of referrals are teenage girls who developed gender dysphoria at or after puberty and that this is a completely new cohort.
Anyone who has been a teenage girl will not find it hard to imagine how an 'idea' can take hold of a group. This has happened with eating disorders.
iwishitwouldstartraining · 25/08/2026 12:52

TheLemonMember · 23/08/2026 00:33

Safeguarding is a false argument for the exclusion trans individuals using spaces that aren't defined as being a refuge. Forcing who outwardly looks like a man or a woman but biologically one is exposing the gery abuse you seek to prevent. The spent by "For Women Scotland" would far better spent funding women only refuges intend turning the clock back to the 1970s. The they opposed has specific safeguards for single sex refuges.
If you check history of public toilets and the suffrage movement, bathing other facilities were exclusively male untill the early 20th century. That why the early suffragette movement coined the term "urinary lease".
Safeguarding victims by providing safe refuge was never a problem beyond the general lack such spaces the spent by running into random public toilet or changing room as a means of excaping abuse is neither likely or even practical as means protection. Primarily because most abuse occurs in the privacy of the home or is perpetrated by people in positions of trust
It far more important readily accessible accommodation like hotels have policies in place the protect the privacy of guests and that children can seek shelter away from the source of abuse.

Safeguarding is not the reason for single sex services like toilets.

If you check the EA 2010 and the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, the reason we have single sex toilets and changing rooms is that in some circumstances it is considered reasonable to object to the presence of the opposite sex to prevent embarrassment and to protect dignity.

You might think that is frightfully old fashioned, but then your argument is that these spaces should be mixed sex, not that they should be 'single sex except when somebody of the opposite sex wants to use them' or that 'they should be single sex when it is reasonable to object to the presence of somebody of the opposite sex, but you must not actually object to the presence of somebody of the opposite sex'.

You will have to make this argument for mixed sex toilets and changing rooms clearly if you want to change the law, and it is very likely that you will face opposition from people who still value single sex facilities when they are in a state of undress.

Mouldemort · 25/08/2026 13:06

There are no big pharma companies run by trans women who are making bank from providing HRT.

ROGD and AGP are discredited pseudoscience.

Trans women don't want to encourage people to be transgender any more than gay people want to encourage people to be gay.

The regret rate for transition is lower than for practically any other medical intervention.

Being transgender is not an ideology any more than being gay is an ideology.

I recommend that you don't raise this issue with your friend if you want to keep your friendship.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 25/08/2026 13:10

Mouldemort · 25/08/2026 13:06

There are no big pharma companies run by trans women who are making bank from providing HRT.

ROGD and AGP are discredited pseudoscience.

Trans women don't want to encourage people to be transgender any more than gay people want to encourage people to be gay.

The regret rate for transition is lower than for practically any other medical intervention.

Being transgender is not an ideology any more than being gay is an ideology.

I recommend that you don't raise this issue with your friend if you want to keep your friendship.

Being transgender is not an ideology any more than being gay is an ideology.

It is possible to be sexually and romantically attracted to somebody of the same sex.

It is not possible to change sex and the concept of gender identity is completely subjective, and, many would say, sexist.

HTH.