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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian: weaponised emotional blackmail from 14yo 'trans' athlete

392 replies

teawamutu · Yesterday 17:40

The Guardian's rearguard action on reality continues. Apparently the problem is not the parents and authorities who conspired to lie to this boy, coddle his delusions, disadvantage all girls around him in the service of his own wishful thinking etc etc etc: it's definitely the people who pointed it out:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/17/trans-athlete-no-one-should-face-vicious-attacks

I am prepared to feel a little sorry for the kid, who couldn't have been exposed like this if the useful idiots around him had done their fucking jobs. But the Grauniad can fuck off with the tired 'beee kiiiind' shit as a solution. Been there, binned the t-shirt. We want our shit back.

I’m a 14-year-old trans athlete. No one should face the vicious attacks I have faced | Lina Haaga

People understand gender differently, and I was taught to respect all ideas. But the vitriol I recently experienced was not a healthy debate

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/17/trans-athlete-no-one-should-face-vicious-attacks

OP posts:
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DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:21

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 20:19

So is cunt, liar, thief, misogynist and gullible.

I agree that those words are all the dictionary. Why did you pick those?

Lifelover16 · Yesterday 20:21

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:14

You hate being referred to as a ciswoman, well, that's how transgirls and transwomen must feel when they're referred to as men.

She is saying she is a woman - no further descriptor required.
Transwomen are men.

EdithStourton · Yesterday 20:21

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:17

Because skin colour is purely a matter of melanin. Gender is much more complex than that and involves hormones, brain chemistry, brain structure, and the intersection of all those things with psychology.

Biological sex is a lot more straightforward than 'race'.

Rachel D was claiming a lot more than being browner than she actually was. Ethnicity is way more than skin colour.

teawamutu · Yesterday 20:21

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:18

No gerbils are ever forced to be mates with an anaconda.

Whereas actual girlsare forced to share sports, changing rooms etc with boys, and shamed as bigots if they object by hard-of-thinking bien-pensants high on their own holiness and stuffed full of pseudo-scientific bullshit.

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Soontobe60 · Yesterday 20:23

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:06

Cis is only used really when discussing trans issues, to make clear which sex you were assigned at birth. Because it's relevant to your individual gender journey.

Nobody is ‘assigned a sex at birth’. Ones sex is recorded at birth, or more frequently in utero. What is this ‘gender journey’ of which you speak? When are we supposed to go on it? Is it like a gap year between A levels and Uni?

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 20:23

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 19:47

For as long as I can remember, I have known I am a girl. That certainty is as instinctive as knowing I am right-handed. It is difficult to explain to someone who has never been transgender or loved someone who is, but I have never lived this way to gain an advantage or take something from someone else. I live this way to honor what I know is true.

Transgirls are who they say they are. No one has the right to tell them who they are or aren't. She says she's a girl. Very obviously, her brain and body do not match up.

You might not like that they exist, you might deny their existence, but that doesn't make it true. Transgirls and transwomen do exist, and they just want to be left alone to live in their preferred gender in peace, same as us ciswomen. It must be hard when you were AMAB but are in fact female.

If the body and the brain "don't match up", why does that mean the person is "really" a girl rather than really a boy?

Why is the mind's self image more authorative than the reality of the body?

The body still exists.

The "girl" doesn't suddenly now have a female body.

So if you think aboit it properly, this whole trans thing only works if you
decide "girl" is really a type of mind.

Do you really think that? That the fundamental defining difference betwen boys and girls, men and women, isn't the fact we simply have different bodies but that we have different types of minds? So different in fact that this difference overrides the very stark and obvious differences of physical sex such that actually being male or female, with all that comes with it physically and socially especially for those of us who are physically female, is less significant than whether a person thinks like "a boy" or "a girl"?

Can you not see how sexist that is?

Because it's not that this boy is "really" a girl at all, it is that you have changed what a girl is to accomodate the boy.

And yet the female children haven't changed. They are still as they always were. And there's no basis on which to assume they are in fact feeling they are the same as whatever it is the boy feels because no one asked them.

And whatever experiences they have or challenges they face because they are female rather than "a girl", whatever that now means, won't go away.

All you've actually done is taken away their name and their link to people who are like them in body in the belief that this is less important than they being infentified as just like a boy who believes himself a girl.

Can you understand how sexist that is?

How dismissive and devaluing of female people and our right to be seen as who we are?

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:23

teawamutu · Yesterday 20:21

Whereas actual girlsare forced to share sports, changing rooms etc with boys, and shamed as bigots if they object by hard-of-thinking bien-pensants high on their own holiness and stuffed full of pseudo-scientific bullshit.

🤷‍♀️ I believe that they are who they say they are.

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 20:27

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:11

Well, if the anaconda is really a gerbil, it wouldn't eat its gerbil friends, would it?

And since we've crossed into the realm of talking animals, the other gerbils and the anaconda would get to know each other as individuals, and the gerbils would realise that the anaconda is, in fact, a gerbil, and they would feel sorry for it because they themselves would hate to have the body of an anaconda when they are really a gerbil. And there would be much more love and understanding in the world than there is now.

And if only women would open their minds to the needs of men and do as we are told we'd have no need for Feminism and everyone would be happy and full of love, right?

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 20:27

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:21

I agree that those words are all the dictionary. Why did you pick those?

Because they too are used as insults along with the ridiculous term ‘cis’.

teawamutu · Yesterday 20:31

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:23

🤷‍♀️ I believe that they are who they say they are.

Talk me through your 'thought' process on this one, using the true case study below.

Are there any other assertions from boys and men that you believe without question and are prepared to bin all the international principles on female and child safeguarding for? Talk me through those, as well.

Guardian: weaponised emotional blackmail from 14yo 'trans' athlete
OP posts:
DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:31

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 20:23

If the body and the brain "don't match up", why does that mean the person is "really" a girl rather than really a boy?

Why is the mind's self image more authorative than the reality of the body?

The body still exists.

The "girl" doesn't suddenly now have a female body.

So if you think aboit it properly, this whole trans thing only works if you
decide "girl" is really a type of mind.

Do you really think that? That the fundamental defining difference betwen boys and girls, men and women, isn't the fact we simply have different bodies but that we have different types of minds? So different in fact that this difference overrides the very stark and obvious differences of physical sex such that actually being male or female, with all that comes with it physically and socially especially for those of us who are physically female, is less significant than whether a person thinks like "a boy" or "a girl"?

Can you not see how sexist that is?

Because it's not that this boy is "really" a girl at all, it is that you have changed what a girl is to accomodate the boy.

And yet the female children haven't changed. They are still as they always were. And there's no basis on which to assume they are in fact feeling they are the same as whatever it is the boy feels because no one asked them.

And whatever experiences they have or challenges they face because they are female rather than "a girl", whatever that now means, won't go away.

All you've actually done is taken away their name and their link to people who are like them in body in the belief that this is less important than they being infentified as just like a boy who believes himself a girl.

Can you understand how sexist that is?

How dismissive and devaluing of female people and our right to be seen as who we are?

There are lots of different types of girls and women. Cis, demi-girl, non-binary, and lots of others.

The fact that those other genders exist doesn't take away from the existence of AFAB people.

Although I suppose it does, if you don't believe that trans people are who they say they are.

But why anyone would persist so strongly in refusing to believe that some people are who they say they are, I don't know. I don't know why it's so very hard to believe that sometimes the brain and the body don't match up. Male and female hormones drive so much of our behaviours and preferences and those hormones flood our brains. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that some people have the set-up of the other sex inside, and therefore feel exactly like a member of the opposite sex even if the body says otherwise, and how painful it must be to live in that disconnect.

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 20:31

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:23

🤷‍♀️ I believe that they are who they say they are.

Do you always believe what people say? What about the two men who’ve just been found guilty of murdering Preston Davey? They say they’re not murderers - do you believe them? Do you believe all rapists who claim that ‘she was begging for it’? Do you believe Hitler when he said that Jews should be exterminated?

Winederlust · Yesterday 20:32

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:01

Not really a subset when ciswomen are the majority by far.

I don't think you know what subset means.

The point is, women are the class. There are no subsets of the female sex.

Mochudubh · Yesterday 20:32

"Oh, shut up, silly woman, " said that reptile with a grin
"Now you knew darn well I was a snake before you brought me in"

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 20:33

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:23

🤷‍♀️ I believe that they are who they say they are.

To do that, you must also believe the thing that makes men and women different is how we think. That some ways of thinking are right for men but wrong for women, and vice versa?

Do you really believe that?

Because I think it's shockingly sexist.

But maybe you really do think that.

If you do, can you as a self-defined "cis" woman please share some of the ways of thinking that make a person a woman rather than a man?

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:33

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 20:31

Do you always believe what people say? What about the two men who’ve just been found guilty of murdering Preston Davey? They say they’re not murderers - do you believe them? Do you believe all rapists who claim that ‘she was begging for it’? Do you believe Hitler when he said that Jews should be exterminated?

No, because those are crimes, and feeling that you're a woman even if AMAB is not a crime, is it?

MyrtleLion · Yesterday 20:34

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:23

🤷‍♀️ I believe that they are who they say they are.

Oh, well that’s all right then!

If they are who they say they are, then we should believe them!

Just like some people believe in a God that I don’t believe exists. Except I am not then obliged to also believe in their God, or follow their religion’s rules.

Whereas I AM forced to say whether my “gender identity” that I don’t have or believe in, is the same as the sex I was “assigned” at birth. No. I am a woman. I do not have a gender identity. My sex was observed at birth and my body developed and is still developing well into my menopause, along the expected female pathway.

If you want to dress in skirts and wear pigtails and makeup, that’s just a costume. But the second you take away the protections I have as a woman, you are in the wrong,

And I have a question. If you want protection from men by not being in the men’s changing rooms or toilets because you identify as trans, why don’t you campaign for your own spaces? So that women are safe from men and trans identifying people are also safe from men?

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:35

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 20:33

To do that, you must also believe the thing that makes men and women different is how we think. That some ways of thinking are right for men but wrong for women, and vice versa?

Do you really believe that?

Because I think it's shockingly sexist.

But maybe you really do think that.

If you do, can you as a self-defined "cis" woman please share some of the ways of thinking that make a person a woman rather than a man?

I think it's a matter of hormones and brain chemistry rather than thinking. Trans women tend to talk about FEELING as if they're female, rather than THINKING themselves into it.

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:36

teawamutu · Yesterday 20:31

Talk me through your 'thought' process on this one, using the true case study below.

Are there any other assertions from boys and men that you believe without question and are prepared to bin all the international principles on female and child safeguarding for? Talk me through those, as well.

I'm not familiar with all the points of law on this, and I can't tell what country that person is from.

MyrtleLion · Yesterday 20:37

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:35

I think it's a matter of hormones and brain chemistry rather than thinking. Trans women tend to talk about FEELING as if they're female, rather than THINKING themselves into it.

Yet all the testing still gives male biological results, even if they are men taking female hormones.

Show me the scientific paper proving otherwise.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · Yesterday 20:38

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:23

🤷‍♀️ I believe that they are who they say they are.

You believe intact male rapists who say they are women and should be locked up with vulnerable women, @DumpyVictoria?

teawamutu · Yesterday 20:41

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:36

I'm not familiar with all the points of law on this, and I can't tell what country that person is from.

I didn't ask you about points of law, though. I asked you to set out why you believe this very obvious boy when he says he's female, and why you think it's ok for him to then be hired to supervise female children in states of undress. Which he wouldn't have, before he said the magic words.

Why is it ok? And without vague reference to 'hormones' or anything like that which have no scientific backing whatsoever.

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DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:42

MyrtleLion · Yesterday 20:34

Oh, well that’s all right then!

If they are who they say they are, then we should believe them!

Just like some people believe in a God that I don’t believe exists. Except I am not then obliged to also believe in their God, or follow their religion’s rules.

Whereas I AM forced to say whether my “gender identity” that I don’t have or believe in, is the same as the sex I was “assigned” at birth. No. I am a woman. I do not have a gender identity. My sex was observed at birth and my body developed and is still developing well into my menopause, along the expected female pathway.

If you want to dress in skirts and wear pigtails and makeup, that’s just a costume. But the second you take away the protections I have as a woman, you are in the wrong,

And I have a question. If you want protection from men by not being in the men’s changing rooms or toilets because you identify as trans, why don’t you campaign for your own spaces? So that women are safe from men and trans identifying people are also safe from men?

Re. your last para - sorry if I gave the impression that I'm trans. I'm a ciswoman.

Why wouldn't we believe them? Yes, sadly there have been some bad actors, but that doesn't mean all trans people are lying.

And actually, you are pretty much forced to live in a Christian way, because Christian ways are the bedrock of our society. To step outside those ways is to receive harsh legal and/or social retribution. Unlike many non-Christian societies, marriage is between one man and one woman (not one man and up to four women); and we frown on adultery. We celebrate Easter and Christmas with time off work whether we want it or not. Almost everyone who isn't a religion that doesn't celebrate Christmas celebrates it even if they don't believe in God. So, you ARE being forced to live as a follower of God.

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:42

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · Yesterday 20:38

You believe intact male rapists who say they are women and should be locked up with vulnerable women, @DumpyVictoria?

No, because they are criminals.

EdithStourton · Yesterday 20:44

I'm still stuck on @DumpyVictoria thinking that ethnicity is just a matter of skin colour... That level of reductive thinking is, to my mind, racist.

And on the whole 'assigned' bullshit. When I was born the midwife took one look and said, 'Girl.'
And funnily enough, can you believe it, she was right.

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